NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

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kramer
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NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby kramer » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:42 am

Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds

From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25.

Link to the rest of the article:
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/...greening-earth

Doesn't a greener earth seem like it would be a healthier earth?

And isn't there a bit of irony in the fact that the very substance that is greening the earth is the number one enemy of the "greens"?


“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

Luca
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Luca » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:02 pm

Interesting that that link seems to have been taken down. I think this is the same one but it doesn't work either.

Nonetheless, this effect is something that you would've expected from an increased concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. It's always struck me as wrong that the the harm of presumptive global warming is emphasized but you rarely seem to hear any consideration of the benefits that might accrue.

http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/201 ... ......Luca

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Fordama
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Fordama » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:51 pm

This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Wabash
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Wabash » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:52 pm

Worked for me.
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Luca » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:00 pm

Fordama wrote:
Seemed to work for me.

Fordama


I can only get one of the links to work intermittently, the rest of the time I get a

"404 The cosmic object you are looking for has disappeared beyond the event horizon." Clever

A "significant greening" detectable simply by satellite pictures over 25-40% of the earth's vegetated surface is a dramatic and likely very beneficial response. I have never understood why it was assumed that putative anthropogenic global warming was in sum necessarily undesirable..............................Luca

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John Q. Public
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby John Q. Public » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:34 pm

I guess it would depend on how the "significant greening" affects the larger ecosystem. It might be a benefit, it might not be. Change one thing and you change another and all that rot.

I'm curious if you use terms like "presumptive" in your work. "Well Mrs. Jones, it looks like you have a presumptive broken tibia. Some people claim that putting a cast on it helps but I'm not so sure." Or do you only question selected fields of science.

I got a purported 404, too. :mrgreen:
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Wabash » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:19 pm

Luca wrote:I have never understood why it was assumed that putative anthropogenic global warming was in sum necessarily undesirable..............................Luca

I hope you are joking but I fear you are not.

Ocean acidification for starters. There appear to be no benefits to the change in pH of the oceans. This process is caused by additional CO2 being absorbed in the water, and may have severe destabilising effects on the entire oceanic food-chain.

Then there is the effects of climate change which may include greener rainforests and enhanced plant growth in the tropics, increased vegetation in northern latitudes and possible increases in plankton biomass in some parts of the ocean. The downside responses may include further growth of oxygen poor ocean zones, contamination or exhaustion of fresh water, increased incidence of natural fires, extensive vegetation die-off due to droughts, increased risk of coral extinction, decline in global photoplankton, changes in migration patterns of birds and animals, changes in seasonal periodicity, disruption to food chains and species loss.

There are many others but I'm sure you get the point.
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Luca » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:36 pm

John Q. Public wrote:I guess it would depend on how the "significant greening" affects the larger ecosystem. It might be a benefit, it might not be..


Very good, JQ. Exactly the point. The same perfectly logical reasoning can be applied to putative warming. It might be a benefit, it might not. This is why we don't draw conclusions, let alone act, until we have enough data.

John Q. Public wrote:I'm curious if you use terms like "presumptive" in your work. "Well Mrs. Jones, it looks like you have a presumptive broken tibia. Some people claim that putting a cast on it helps but I'm not so sure." Or do you only question selected fields of science...


Presumptive is a word/concept you have to use regularly when you don't have enough data to know for certain. When you have a CT or MRI that shows a very suspicious mass in a patient with weight loss you have a presumptive cancer, but you don't know for sure until you get a biopsy.

When you see a fractured tibia on an x-ray, that is "diagnostic" and you know from exhaustive experience that putting a cast on it will aid in healing because it has been done over and over in the past and is proven from experience to be effective.

We do not, for example, see a problem for the first time and utilize computer projections to make the diagnosis and institute treatment. You need more certainty before you act. "First do no harm."

Every field of science is questioned. Otherwise it wouldn't be science. Why would you ask?....................Luca

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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby kramer » Sat May 13, 2017 10:38 am

Earth's forests grew 9% in a new satellite survey

...the world’s drylands host 40% more forests than thought, the team writes today in Science. That’s more than a 9% bump in total global forest coverage, or two-thirds the size of the Amazon.

Source:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/ ... ite-survey


Way to go CO2... :D
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby not4u13 » Sun May 14, 2017 6:32 am

I love your last statement Luca. Every field of science is questioned. Otherwise it wouldn't be science.

I think a lot of us forget that fundamental truth about science. We tend to think of things in science as indisputable fact. Atmospheric science is no different. What they are trying to do with the models us use past behaviors to predict future results. Some things are going to prove more reliable than others.

An increase is C02 should result in more green plants, which in turn product more Oxygen. I don't know whether or not that was factored into the model, but as we see things begin to happen, atmospheric scientists should consider adjustments to the forward looking model. The problem is, we are dealing with things that could take centuries.
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby MDDad » Sun May 14, 2017 11:29 am

not4u13 wrote:We tend to think of things in science as indisputable fact. Atmospheric science is no different.

Exactly. That's why it's so laughable when convinced climate change believers staunchly insist "The science is done." The science of nothing is ever done.

What they are trying to do with the models us use past behaviors to predict future results. Some things are going to prove more reliable than others.

Right again. At the bottom of every document printed and distributed by brokers and financial advisers is some version of the disclaimer, "Past performance is not an indicator of future returns". Perhaps it would be wise to think the same of climate science models.

An increase is C02 should result in more green plants, which in turn product more Oxygen. I don't know whether or not that was factored into the model, but as we see things begin to happen, atmospheric scientists should consider adjustments to the forward looking model.

If their models need adjusting because more CO2 = more green plants = more O2, is that a suggestion that climate scientists didn't know that simple truth -- something almost every elementary school student knows?

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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Fordama » Sun May 14, 2017 4:05 pm

Carbon cycle. Learn it, live it, love it.

In the meantime, sure we on OCConnect are smart enough to realize that this greening should be in the models,but the scientists can't figure out that they should do it. Oh wait, they did, it's right there in that story.

I also enjoy how this article is being taken as gospel, while NASA's many other studies and statements on climate change are somehow suspect!
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby John Q. Public » Sun May 14, 2017 5:23 pm

I think it's interesting that the replies are about climate change but the article wasn't even remotely related to it.
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby not4u13 » Mon May 15, 2017 6:15 am

I am not suggesting that I'm smarter than a NASA climate scientist on matters of atmospheric science, but I am smart enough to know that even the best minds and peer reviewed studies sometimes miss the obvious. I don't know what was considered and what was not, but in terms of science, it would be interesting to know if this greening was a part of the model or not since this is a new study.

Oh, and just because the article does not mention climate change does not mean climate change is not a topic because of the article.
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Fordama » Mon May 15, 2017 6:48 am

Of course it's about climate change---that's why Kramer posted it. Back in the day, "it wasn't happening." Then it changed to "It's happening, but man has nothing to do with it." Now it has morphed to "it's happening, but it's a good thing!"
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby John Q. Public » Mon May 15, 2017 7:15 am

And NASA has pictures that have nothing to do with it.</snark>
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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Bick » Mon May 15, 2017 9:07 am

Back when I was in high school, there was a LOT of chatter about the coming ice age that was caused by C02 levels.

Unfortunately, like with this and nearly every point, both sides are more interested in supporting their belief v. understanding the other's perspective, and credibility / objectivity are lost.

You've now got news outlets stating the recent shark sightings off the coast are a result of climate change. I unsuccessfully tried to point out that there's been no increase in shark attacks, and the water temp is within 20 year historical range for this time of year, and that MAYBE the increase in the number of drones with video cameras that can get beyond the surfline was and look downward was behind the increased sightings. Instead of considering that possibility, I was accused of being a closed-minded science hater by multiple people in Denver, St Louis and PA.

I'm not sure what to make of this CO2 issue, or the alleged / refuted bleaching of the Great Barrier Reef. It seems the folks in Australia think it's a function of farming sediment runoff, but the climate change proponents think it's a warming issue. Some scientists say the die off / coral cover growth cycle has been happening for 1000's of years, and others say bleaching was limited to the northernmost section of the GBR. Others show it's actually grown some 19% the past 3 years ending 2015.

You'd think something like the actual condition could be agreed upon - even if the cause / solution is being debated.

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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Fordama » Mon May 15, 2017 12:30 pm

When I was in high school the only thing there was a LOT of chatter about was how to get to 3rd base.

Since, in the meantime, has largely been predicting warming for decades. A couple of splashy stories in news magazines in the 70's left the sorely wrong perception that science was predicting another ice age.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby Omar Bongo » Mon May 15, 2017 11:14 pm

When I was in high school the only thing there was a LOT of chatter about was how to get to 3rd base

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Re: NASA: Carbon Dioxide greening the earth

Postby kramer » Sat May 20, 2017 11:25 am

Fordama wrote:Since, in the meantime, has largely been predicting warming for decades. A couple of splashy stories in news magazines in the 70's left the sorely wrong perception that science was predicting another ice age.


Couple, Definition:
noun
1 the next couple is a sister act from Trenton: pair, duo, twosome, two; archaic twain, brace.
2 a honeymoon couple: husband and wife, twosome, partners, lovers; informal item.
3 I have a couple of things to do: some, a few, a handful of, one or two.


Click the site below and you'll find over 60 articles and a few videos on the coming ice age.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/01/ ... mpilation/

By the way Fordama, there was a proposed california law that would have resulted in a fine or jail term for fake news. Better be careful what you spew.

Just helping to educate an 'educator'...
You're welcome :D
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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