(As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capitalism

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kramer
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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by kramer » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:53 pm

Fordama wrote:The only thing scary and frightening is that there are still a huge number of idiots who won't accept the scientific evidence.
When you have skeptics like me posting valid information on how a fair amount of this 'science' is corrupt, etc and people not being smart enough to comprehend it, that is what is scary and frightening.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by Wabash » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:39 pm

Clean energy is the future. Regardless of your tin foil hat beliefs.

I have more faith in them than you.

I'm sure you won't be the only Luddite left behind.

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by kramer » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:33 pm

"Clean energy is the future."
Yet NASA's James Hansen, who for decades pushed the global warming issue, is on record of saying that both wind and solar won't provide us enough 24/7/365 energy. He's a proponent of nuclear which has an extremely tiny plant and tree food footprint.


"Regardless of your tin foil hat beliefs."
Gotta love the tin foil hat coming from a low-info snowflake... :D



I'm sure you won't be the only Luddite left behind.
Many environmentalists precisely want us to go back to the simple days. Doesn't that qualify them as Luddites?
And speaking of Luddites, wind power is old technology, nuclear is new technology (relative to wind). Many greens are against nuclear, a new tech and are embracing the old wind technology.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by Wabash » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:38 pm

I know this may be a difficult concept. Technology has changed since he made that statement.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by kramer » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:52 pm

June 25, 2018. Boston Globe:
"The notion that renewable energies and batteries alone will provide all needed energy is fantastical. It is also a grotesque idea, because of the staggering environmental pollution from mining and material disposal, if all energy was derived from renewables and batteries.'
- James Hansen

So Wabash, what has changed in less than 4 months that makes his disdain for wind and solar wrong?
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by Wabash » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:06 pm

Let me ask you? Do you agree with him on the use of nuclear power?

What makes his disdain so wrong is the belief that technology will never change.

When NASA was given the mandate to send a man to the moon the technology didn't exist at that point in time. Less than 10 years later man was walking on the moon.

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by kramer » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:52 pm

Regarding nuclear power, I am fine with it IF the waste can be safely dealt with and IF they can make them so that in the event of a human mistake or say, earthquake, they'll safely shut down. In other words, meltdown proof.

Do you really think he believes tech will never change? No. He simply realizes that wind and solar can't provide 24/7/365 energy that a modern (non-luddite) society needs to function.

If another type of renewable energy source was invented and actually worked 24/7/367 and provided relatively cheap energy, I'd be all for it.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by Wabash » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:55 pm

So what IF those things don't happen. Then what

I don't know what he believes. I am responding to your citation. Believing that wind and solar will never be capable of providing the energy levels of a modern society only shows that he is woefully naive when it comes to both technology and history.

I'll keep that last statement in mind.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by Fordama » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:33 pm

kramer wrote: Do you really think he believes tech will never change? No. He simply realizes that wind and solar can't provide 24/7/365 energy that a modern (non-luddite) society needs to function. .
So you're worldview is screwed because fossil fuels are extremely finite (and of course very damaging to the atmosphere.)
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by kramer » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:22 pm

Wabash wrote:So what IF those things don't happen. Then what
We have plenty of time to develop a real viable energy source because we have more oil, coal and NG than any other nation combined (which will probably change once the other larger nations start really looking at what they have). And we have something like a 1,000 year supply of methane hydrates.

We also could let the rest of the world go green while we stay with fossil fuels until a better renewable energy source is created.
Wabash wrote: Believing that wind and solar will never be capable of providing the energy levels of a modern society only shows that he is woefully naive when it comes to both technology and history.
Wind and solar aren't capable of providing 24/7/365 power. Its sunny half the day, right? And the wind doesn't always blow, right? So how could it provide 24/7/365 power?
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by kramer » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:25 pm

Fordama wrote:So you're worldview is screwed because fossil fuels are extremely finite (and of course very damaging to the atmosphere.)
We have something like a 1,000 year supply of methane hydrates and more NG, oil, and coal combined than any other nation. We have plenty of time to come up with a really good alternative energy source or sources. In the meantime, the rest of the world can go 'green' if they want.

CO2 is not damaging to the atmosphere, is not the bad weather control knob nor the temperature control knob. It's plant and tree food and is in fact (at least according to NASA), causing the world to get greener.
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by kramer » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:34 pm

kramer wrote:From Eric Holthaus, Grist writer and meteorologist regarding the new IPCC report:

"The world's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capitalism as a key requirement to maintaining civilization and a habitable planet."
Hmmm, an excerpt from the latest IPCC report from the world's 'top scientists'' sounds awfully socialistic to me. Basically, it says (I'm paraphrasing):

Taxes on CO2 can offset these effects if their revenues are redistributed through rebates to poor households. Other options include...direct benefit transfers to enable poverty reduction.
Serious question for snowflakes:

Why would a scientific report on climate change from 'top scientists' discuss redistribution of wealth and poverty reduction?
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by Wabash » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:40 pm

kramer wrote:We have plenty of time to develop a real viable energy source because we have more oil, coal and NG than any other nation combined (which will probably change once the other larger nations start really looking at what they have). And we have something like a 1,000 year supply of methane hydrates.
Products of combustion are known carcinogens. I'd rather develop energy sources that are not poisonous. But that's just me.
kramer wrote:We also could let the rest of the world go green while we stay with fossil fuels until a better renewable energy source is created.
Or we could lead the way. You know. American Exceptionalism and all that jingoistic stuff.
kramer wrote:Wind and solar aren't capable of providing 24/7/365 power. Its sunny half the day, right? And the wind doesn't always blow, right? So how could it provide 24/7/365 power?
I believe there are things called batteries. But I could be wrong.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by Fordama » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:19 pm

kramer wrote:We have something like a 1,000 year supply of methane hydrates and more NG, oil, and coal combined than any other nation.
Great. More dirty air. Wonderful idea.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by kramer » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:45 pm

Wabash wrote: I believe there are things called batteries. But I could be wrong.
You're not wrong, you just are a little ignorant on the scale and scope of the excavations required and amount of natural resources needed to make them.

And batteries have a finite lifetime.

What ever happened to preserving the earth from ravaging for natural resources? Now its ok?
“We should have been warned by the CFC/ozone affair because the corruption of science in that was so bad that something like 80% of the measurements being made during that time were either faked, or incompetently done.”

- Scientist James Lovelock

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by MDDad » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:01 pm

My oldest son is part of the Southern California Edison management team that has to respond every month to the California PUC regarding the region's electricity needs 90 days out. He's told me the notion that we can come up with the storage capacity to provide nighttime electricity in the time frame required by the state to go all-renewable is absolutely impossible. And that's without the additional demand that will be imposed by the state's requirements that all new cars sold by 2XXX must be electric.

It's another liberal wet dream with little basis in reality.

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by crayegg » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:34 pm

It's not another liberal wet dream, it's the future, and the sooner us old farts get onboard or (die out) the better it will be for everybody.

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by Wabash » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:05 pm

kramer wrote:You're not wrong, you just are a little ignorant on the scale and scope of the excavations required and amount of natural resources needed to make them.

And batteries have a finite lifetime.

What ever happened to preserving the earth from ravaging for natural resources? Now its ok?
Once again you're assuming that future technology won't allow it.

I'm old enough to remember when it was believed that landing a man on the moon and getting them back to Earth was impossible.

Yet it was done six times.

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by MDDad » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 pm

It's not the fact that the technology won't eventually be available. It's that the California legislature passes laws that require all renewable energy by 2XXX, and all electric cars by 2XXX, and they have no idea how long it will take or what it will cost. It's what has the senior executives at energy providers like SCE laughing their asses off.

My son and his team predict that Tier 1 electricity rates that are currently between 12 and 18 cents/kwh in most areas will rise to 40 to 45 cents fairly quickly. Then it will be like the bullet train fiasco, with costs and timelines continuing to move out until what the clueless legislature wants eventually has to confront reality.

They're like a six-year old who wants a bicycle. You can tell him that we can't afford a bike, and the nearest store is a thousand miles away, and he just stamps his feet and screams that he wants it anyway. It's liberalism at its comical best.

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Re: (As I’ve been saying all along) World's top scientists just gave rigorous backing to systematically dismantle capita

Post by crayegg » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:16 am

What's the duly passed Senate or Assembly Bill number requiring anything to occur by year 2XXX?

By the way, I'm not finding year 2XXX on my calendar, when is that?

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