Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

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kramer
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Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by kramer » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:17 pm

Here's a good read that challenges some of Al Gore's AGW claims from the HuffingtonPost.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-am ... 54982.html

Kramer

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ThomasDad
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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by ThomasDad » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:10 pm

Further proof one can't trust a liberal website like Huffington Post.

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kramer
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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by kramer » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:14 pm

ThomasDad wrote:Further proof one can't trust a liberal website like Huffington Post.
I don't think you understand how bias works TD. It's not that liberal media sources lie about republicans and conservatives (I know they have but it's not often), it's in how they present the news and what news they choose to report. For example, a recent NYTImes article that tries to tie Bush to this subprime economic mess (and he deserves some blame) said that Bush increased the housing quota goal to 56%. What they don't say is that Clinton pushed it from 0 to 50%.

I generally believe most of what I read or hear in the MSM. But I realize that there is a high probability that I'm not getting all of the facts.

Anyway, I'm glad this was story was on the HuffingtonPost. This makes two liberal sources that have had skeptic AGW stories, (the other source being TheNation, they had a series of I think 4 articles). AGW has a lot of holes in it and there is a lot of politics tied to it. In addition, I can see a strong link between AGW and globalization. Call me a nut but I think I have enough evidence to show the link.

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by Red » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:19 pm

kramer wrote:
I don't think you understand how bias works TD. It's not that liberal media sources lie about republicans and conservatives (I know they have but it's not often), it's in how they present the news and what news they choose to report. For example, a recent NYTImes article that tries to tie Bush to this subprime economic mess (and he deserves some blame) said that Bush increased the housing quota goal to 56%. What they don't say is that Clinton pushed it from 0 to 50%.

I generally believe most of what I read or hear in the MSM. But I realize that there is a high probability that I'm not getting all of the facts.

Anyway, I'm glad this was story was on the HuffingtonPost. This makes two liberal sources that have had skeptic AGW stories, (the other source being TheNation, they had a series of I think 4 articles). AGW has a lot of holes in it and there is a lot of politics tied to it. In addition, I can see a strong link between AGW and globalization. Call me a nut but I think I have enough evidence to show the link.
Gore shoudl be talking about the shortage of the world's food supply. Especially after him and Michael Moore have dinner together! :mrgreen:

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by WyartWeeTara » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:24 pm

kramer wrote:Here's a good read that challenges some of Al Gore's AGW claims from the HuffingtonPost.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harold-am ... 54982.html

Kramer
Regardless of what an article says, I'm going to go with what a majority of the credentialed scientists who are experts in climatology are saying, which is that global warming is for the most part man-made, unless of course they are all in on the conspiracy.
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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by ThomasDad » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 pm

kramer wrote:
I don't think you understand how bias works TD. It's not that liberal media sources lie about republicans and conservatives (I know they have but it's not often), it's in how they present the news and what news they choose to report. For example, a recent NYTImes article that tries to tie Bush to this subprime economic mess (and he deserves some blame) said that Bush increased the housing quota goal to 56%. What they don't say is that Clinton pushed it from 0 to 50%.

I generally believe most of what I read or hear in the MSM. But I realize that there is a high probability that I'm not getting all of the facts.

Anyway, I'm glad this was story was on the HuffingtonPost. This makes two liberal sources that have had skeptic AGW stories, (the other source being TheNation, they had a series of I think 4 articles). AGW has a lot of holes in it and there is a lot of politics tied to it. In addition, I can see a strong link between AGW and globalization. Call me a nut but I think I have enough evidence to show the link.
Yo, Mark--it was a joke.

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by crayegg » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:45 pm

WyartWeeTara wrote:
Regardless of what an article says, I'm going to go with what a majority of the credentialed scientists who are experts in climatology are saying, which is that global warming is for the most part man-made, unless of course they are all in on the conspiracy.
Yes, as the article points out climates change, but what we see today is unprecedented. The current Holocene period has seen warming and cooling, but only on many hundreds or thousands of year periods. The effect of post-industrial period climate change is unprecedented, and we ignore it to our mortal peril.

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by ND7 » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:57 pm

crayegg wrote:
Yes, as the article points out climates change, but what we see today is unprecedented. The current Holocene period has seen warming and cooling, but only on many hundreds or thousands of year periods. The effect of post-industrial period climate change is unprecedented, and we ignore it to our mortal peril.
As the utes say Crayegg, chill :mrgreen:
"What matters is not that it's true, but that I believe it; or no, not that I believe it, but that I believe it....I trust I make myself obscure."
St. Thomas More, A Man for All Seasons.

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by crayegg » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:07 am

ND7 wrote: As the utes say Crayegg, chill :mrgreen:
Well, chilling in North America could very well be part of it. If the icecaps continue to melt, it may shut down the North Atlantic "conveyor belt" where the warm equatorial water goes north, gets colder then goes south. Without that, North America and Europe will get colder in the short term, while the planet as a whole gets warmer. It's a symptom.

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kramer
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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by kramer » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:01 am

crayegg wrote:
Yes, as the article points out climates change, but what we see today is unprecedented. The current Holocene period has seen warming and cooling, but only on many hundreds or thousands of year periods. The effect of post-industrial period climate change is unprecedented, and we ignore it to our mortal peril.

"Unprecedented?" Take a look at the bottom graph in the second page of a James Hansen paper:

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/meetings/arcti ... hansen.pdf

What you see is a regularly occurring temperature cycle whose period for each cycle is almost the same. And if you look where we are on that graph, you'll see that we are at the maximum of the NATURAL high temp cycle.

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by kramer » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:05 am

crayegg wrote:
Well, chilling in North America could very well be part of it. If the icecaps continue to melt, it may shut down the North Atlantic "conveyor belt" where the warm equatorial water goes north, gets colder then goes south. Without that, North America and Europe will get colder in the short term, while the planet as a whole gets warmer. It's a symptom.
Did you even read the HuffingtonPost story I linked? It said that the amount of Antarctic Ice for 2007 was the MOST ever.! How can you ignorantly say that the ice caps are melting?

And did you also catch the part that the North pole is periodically ice free?

Good grief, what is it with you programmed non-thinking liberals...

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by Fordama » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:40 am

kramer wrote:
Did you even read the HuffingtonPost story I linked? It said that the amount of Antarctic Ice for 2007 was the MOST ever.! How can you ignorantly say that the ice caps are melting?

And did you also catch the part that the North pole is periodically ice free?

Good grief, what is it with you programmed non-thinking liberals...
Given the writer's misinterpretation of the problems with CO2 levels, his presentation of the ice caps issue could be just as inaccurate.

Just because Gore isn't a good source of information on science doesn't mean others who are also not good sources should be given any more credibility.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by Red » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:44 am

Fordama wrote:Given the writer's misinterpretation of the problems with CO2 levels, his presentation of the ice caps issue could be just as inaccurate.

Just because Gore isn't a good source of information on science doesn't mean others who are also not good sources should be given any more credibility.

Fordama
True, it means gore is capitalizing on the BIG LIE. What another PIG!

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by Fordama » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:02 am

Red wrote: True, it means gore is capitalizing on the BIG LIE. What another PIG!
No, he's capitalizing on what appears to be a real problem--which still may make him a pig.

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This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by Parrotpaul » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:06 am

Fordama wrote: No, he's capitalizing on what appears to be a real problem--which still may make him a pig.

Fordama
Does that mean Gore could never get the Muslim vote?
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by kramer » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:42 am

Fordama wrote:Given the writer's misinterpretation of the problems with CO2 levels, his presentation of the ice caps issue could be just as inaccurate.

Just because Gore isn't a good source of information on science doesn't mean others who are also not good sources should be given any more credibility.

Fordama
I didn't see a single thing about plant food (CO2) that was misrepresented in that article. What did you see Fordy?

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by WyartWeeTara » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:17 pm

kramer wrote:
Did you even read the HuffingtonPost story I linked? It said that the amount of Antarctic Ice for 2007 was the MOST ever.! How can you ignorantly say that the ice caps are melting?

And did you also catch the part that the North pole is periodically ice free?

Good grief, what is it with you programmed non-thinking liberals...
The reason the ice caps in Antartica appear to be expanding is because the ice that is on top of land, which has been frozen for several years, is melting down to the ocean and then refreezing again in the winter. More ice isn't being made, it's just moving in a way we haven't seen for a long time.
"If you unclench your fist, we will extend our hand."- President Barack Obama

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by WyartWeeTara » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:23 pm

kramer wrote:
I didn't see a single thing about plant food (CO2) that was misrepresented in that article. What did you see Fordy?
You seem to not understand that there is more CO2 going into the atmosphere than the plants can absorb. You would be right if there were enough plants to absorb all of that CO2 and vise-versa. Before the industrial revolution and the introduction of fossil fuels, there was a balance in CO2 and O between plants and animals. Every so often a volcano might erupt and upset the balance, but eventually things returned to normal. Now that we are pumping all of this CO2 in the atmosphere with no end in sight, the planet will change and we will have to adapt unless we decide to cut our CO2 output.
"If you unclench your fist, we will extend our hand."- President Barack Obama

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by kramer » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:00 pm

WyartWeeTara wrote:
The reason the ice caps in Antartica appear to be expanding is because the ice that is on top of land, which has been frozen for several years, is melting down to the ocean and then refreezing again in the winter. More ice isn't being made, it's just moving in a way we haven't seen for a long time.
Got a link that backs this up?

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Re: Article on the HuffingtonPost that challenges AGW and Gore.

Post by kramer » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:12 pm

WyartWeeTara wrote:
You seem to not understand that there is more CO2 going into the atmosphere than the plants can absorb. You would be right if there were enough plants to absorb all of that CO2 and vise-versa. Before the industrial revolution and the introduction of fossil fuels, there was a balance in CO2 and O between plants and animals. Every so often a volcano might erupt and upset the balance, but eventually things returned to normal. Now that we are pumping all of this CO2 in the atmosphere with no end in sight, the planet will change and we will have to adapt unless we decide to cut our CO2 output.
I know we are pumping CO2 into the atmosphere and that the total CO2 is rising. But CO2 is a weak GHG and man is only responsible for 2% to 3% of the total that gets added to the atmosphere each year. Nature adds the rest (98% to 98%). In addition, CO2 is an extremely small fraction of the atmospheric composition. On top of that, the effect of CO2 on temperature is logarithimic which means climate sensitivity decreases as more CO2 is added to the atmosphere. This means for example, that the first 20 PPM of CO2 has a greater effect on temperature than the next 400 ppm.

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