Balls and strikes called electronically?

Charles
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Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Charles » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:14 pm

Would you support it? Eliminate the umpire (just for balls and strikes)? I would - assuming it is essentially flawless which it can probably be made to be.

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Zebra
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Zebra » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:29 pm

Charles wrote:Would you support it? Eliminate the umpire (just for balls and strikes)? I would - assuming it is essentially flawless which it can probably be made to be.
No .. I'm an umpire, I need the work. :2cents:
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Charles
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Charles » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:34 am

Zebra wrote:
No .. I'm an umpire, I need the work. :2cents:
Yes, I'm an electronics engineer. I need the work.

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oceanvue
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by oceanvue » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:38 am

only if they allow the teams to use mechanical batters
Last edited by oceanvue on Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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~44~
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by ~44~ » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:57 am

I'm all for it. Works flawlessly for tennis.
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Charles
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Charles » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:59 am

oceanvue wrote:only if they allow the teams use mechanical batters
Swim meets are timed electronically. What's the difference? Why not take advantage of technology? Umpires would still be present for things that it is impossible to do electronically and the game would still be played by human players. Right now, there is inconsistency with human calls of balls and strikes. Umpires can get rattled and influenced. Their perspective may vary over the course of a game.

MDDad
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by MDDad » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:22 am

~44~ wrote:I'm all for it. Works flawlessly for tennis.
Bingo. Cameras, focused lights or graphics overlays could make ball and strike calls 100% accurate. Overlays already indicate that umpires are wrong 20-30% of the time on the ball/strike calls, and that's not acceptable at the major league level.

While we're at it, can we also make the strike zone the same size for all hitters? We don't lower the basket for short point guards, and we don't use a smaller goal for short hockey goalies, so why use a smaller strike zone for short guys or (worse yet) for guys who squat down?

And while we're also at it, can we please get rid of Jeff Mathis?

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Notorious
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Notorious » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:34 am

Just get rid of baseball entirely.
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Charles
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Charles » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:39 am

MDDad wrote: While we're at it, can we also make the strike zone the same size for all hitters? We don't lower the basket for short point guards, and we don't use a smaller goal for short hockey goalies, so why use a smaller strike zone for short guys or (worse yet) for guys who squat down?
That is a completely different question that is more philosophical and addresses the heritage of the rules. But I can see your point, though it would change the game.

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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by not4u13 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:25 pm

Charles wrote:Would you support it? Eliminate the umpire (just for balls and strikes)? I would - assuming it is essentially flawless which it can probably be made to be.
No.

Baseball is a game played by people, flaws and all. It should be officiated by people, flaws and all.

The arguing of balls/strikes is a mental part of the game and taking that away changes the complexion of the game. A really good catcher can get a strike call by the way they frame the ball and how they position themselves behind the plate. A good hitter can shrink the strike zone by how they position themselves within the box and how they react after the pitch. A good umpire can maintain consistency throughout the game. A good manager knows just how far to go in arguing calls with the Umpire to help give their pitcher confidence and instill just a little bit of doubt upon the umpire in hopes of getting the next call.

Baseball is played by all ages and abilities. Using electronics at the major league level could drive that technology (and cost) into the lower lower levels. Keep it simple.
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oceanvue
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by oceanvue » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:18 pm

why doesn't baseball have cheerleaders? It would be fun watching them dodge foul balls
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Charles » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:36 pm

oceanvue wrote:why doesn't baseball have cheerleaders? It would be fun watching them dodge foul balls
I saw the San Diego Chicken once (in Rochester at a AAA game). Absolute crack up. Great for kids and adults.

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MDDad
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by MDDad » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:03 pm

not4u13 wrote:
No.

Baseball is a game played by people, flaws and all. It should be officiated by people, flaws and all.

The arguing of balls/strikes is a mental part of the game and taking that away changes the complexion of the game. A really good catcher can get a strike call by the way they frame the ball and how they position themselves behind the plate. A good hitter can shrink the strike zone by how they position themselves within the box and how they react after the pitch. A good umpire can maintain consistency throughout the game. A good manager knows just how far to go in arguing calls with the Umpire to help give their pitcher confidence and instill just a little bit of doubt upon the umpire in hopes of getting the next call.

Baseball is played by all ages and abilities. Using electronics at the major league level could drive that technology (and cost) into the lower lower levels. Keep it simple.
I'm not sure your position makes logical sense. Football is also a game "played by people, flaws and all." Should it also "be officiated by people, flaws and all?" Perhaps we should eliminated all video replays and coaches' challenges. We could also eliminate the chain gang and just have the referees guess when a first down has been gained. Maybe instead of a goal line, we could just have two pylons on each sideline. Then the ball carrier could "frame" the ball to make it look like it crossed the goal line when it really didn't. Field goal kickers could squat down and thereby change the width of the goalposts. And coaches could yell at the referees all game in an effort to sway a call in the fourth quarter.

If it sounds ludicrous for football, it's just as obsolete and out-of-order for baseball. Why not leverage technology and bring the game into at least the 20th century.

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Notorious
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Notorious » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:16 pm

MDDad wrote:
I'm not sure your position makes logical sense. Football is also a game "played by people, flaws and all." Should it also "be officiated by people, flaws and all?" Perhaps we should eliminated all video replays and coaches' challenges. We could also eliminate the chain gang and just have the referees guess when a first down has been gained. Maybe instead of a goal line, we could just have two pylons on each sideline. Then the ball carrier could "frame" the ball to make it look like it crossed the goal line when it really didn't. Field goal kickers could squat down and thereby change the width of the goalposts. And coaches could yell at the referees all game in an effort to sway a call in the fourth quarter.

If it sounds ludicrous for football, it's just as obsolete and out-of-order for baseball. Why not leverage technology and bring the game into at least the 20th century.
Uh football is flawed, they don't ever look at exactly where the ball was when the player is down they guess. There's no reviews for penalties or lack of penalties on any play.
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oceanvue
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by oceanvue » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:22 pm

I think they should have automatic review for every made basket in the NBA like they do now with touchdowns in he NFL
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by MDDad » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:26 pm

Notorious wrote: Uh football is flawed, they don't ever look at exactly where the ball was when the player is down they guess. There's no reviews for penalties or lack of penalties on any play.
Of course football is flawed. After all, it is "played by people and officiated by people, flaws and all." But the game has made the effort to minimize human error by the use of technology, so to compare it to baseball is ludicrous. The strike zone largely determines what happens on every pitch, roughly 300 times a game. To have something that important exist only as a variable and imaginary notion in the mind of an umpire, when it can easily be made consistent, is nuts.

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oceanvue
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by oceanvue » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:28 pm

that's going to put a lot of fat guys out of work
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Notorious
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Notorious » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:28 pm

MDDad wrote:
Of course football is flawed. After all, it is "played by people and officiated by people, flaws and all." But the game has made the effort to minimize human error by the use of technology, so to compare it to baseball is ludicrous. The strike zone largely determines what happens on every pitch, roughly 300 times a game. To have something that important exist only as a variable and imaginary notion in the mind of an umpire, when it can easily be made consistent, is nuts.
Penalties affect the game more than any other single thing at the nfl level imo, and you can't challenge those.

How many times is the ball marked where it's at a game? How often are they exactly right? Probably never.
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Charles
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Charles » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:53 pm

Notorious wrote: Penalties affect the game more than any other single thing at the nfl level imo, and you can't challenge those.

How many times is the ball marked where it's at a game? How often are they exactly right? Probably never.
The technology probably exists to determine precisely where the ball should be placed. Sensors on the field and on the players themselves could be used. Heck, as big as pro sports is, it still may be too expensive to implement. And that is if all the stakeholders agree the technology should be used.

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Zebra
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Re: Balls and strikes called electronically?

Post by Zebra » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:25 pm

Notorious wrote: Penalties affect the game more than any other single thing at the nfl level imo, and you can't challenge those.

How many times is the ball marked where it's at a game? How often are they exactly right? Probably never.
Penalties are variable .. holding on the left tackle won't be and shouldn't be called on a play going to the outside (unless a cutback or player saftey foul occurs). Doesn't affect the play and games would be 5 hours long.

You are correct .. football is only "a game of inches" when you miss that first down by inches. No one is going to get the exact spot, but more times than not, we're within a balls length of where it becomes down (which sometimes varies greatly from where a coach or spectator thinks it should be when forward progress is called).

The point is to "get it right" so I have no problems with replays. Just kills me when the replay guy gets it wrong ... :poof:
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