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How government works.

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:27 pm
by Troglodyte
Gubmint and How Gubmint Works
Once upon a time the government had a vast scrap yard in the middle of a desert. Congress said, "Someone may steal from it at night."
So they created a night watchman position and hired a person for the job.

Then Congress said, "How does the watchman do his job without instruction?" So they created a planning department and hired two people, one person to write the instructions, and one person to do time studies.

Then Congress said, "How will we know the night watchman is doing the tasks correctly?" So they created a Quality Control department and hired two people. One to do the studies and one to write the reports.

Then Congress said, "How are these people going to get paid?" So They created the following positions, a time keeper, and a payroll officer, then hired two people.

Then Congress said, "Who will be accountable for all of these people?" So they created an administrative section and hired three people, an Administrative Officer, Assistant Administrative Officer, and a Legal Secretary.

Then Congress said, "We have had this command in operation for one Year and we are $18,000 over budget, we must cutback overall cost." So they laid off the night watchman.

NOW slowly, let it sink in.

Quietly, we go like sheep to slaughter.

Does anybody remember the reason given for
the establishment of the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY..... during the Carter Administration?

Anybody?

Anything?

No?

Didn't think so!

Bottom line. We've spent several hundred billion dollars in support of an agency...the reason for which not one person who reads this can remember!

Ready??
It was very simple...and at the time, everybody thought it very appropriate.

The Department of Energy was instituted on
8-04-1977, TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL.

Hey, pretty efficient, huh???

AND NOW IT'S 2010 -- 33 YEARS LATER -- AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS "NECESSARY" DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR. THEY HAVE 16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AND APPROXIMATELY 100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES; AND LOOK AT THE JOB THEY HAVE DONE! THIS IS WHERE YOU SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY, "WHAT WAS I THINKING?"

33 years ago 30% of our oil consumption was foreign imports. Today 70% of our oil consumption is foreign imports.

Ah,
yes -- good ole bureaucracy.

AND,
NOW, WE ARE GOING TO TURN THE BANKING SYSTEM, HEALTH CARE, AND THE AUTO INDUSTRY OVER TO THE SAME GOVERNMENT?
HELLOOO!

Anybody Home?

"America Bless God"

Re: How government works.

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:32 pm
by e. rosewater
Troglodyte wrote:NOW, WE ARE GOING TO TURN THE BANKING SYSTEM, HEALTH CARE, AND THE AUTO INDUSTRY OVER TO THE SAME GOVERNMENT?
HELLOOO!
Given how the crack private sector executives ran those industries into the ground, how could the government do worse?

Re: How government works.

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:39 pm
by 18echo
e. rosewater wrote:Given how the crack private sector executives ran those industries into the ground, how could the government do worse?
That sounds like a challenge that they just might take you up on...

Re: How government works.

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:46 pm
by Troglodyte
e. rosewater wrote: Given how the crack private sector executives ran those industries into the ground, how could the government do worse?
Government has proven over and over again that they will do much worse. Remember it was government's medling that unleashed these disasters.

"An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.".... Mark Twain

Re: How government works.

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:08 pm
by e. rosewater
Troglodyte wrote: Government has proven over and over again that they will do much worse. Remember it was government's medling that unleashed these disasters.
Were you not paying attention? It was when government stopped meddling that these disasters occurred.
Troglodyte wrote:"An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.".... Mark Twain
Twain had a lot of pithy quotes. So what?

Re: How government works.

Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:29 pm
by John Q. Public
Troglodyte wrote:Then Congress said, "We have had this command in operation for one Year and we are $18,000 over budget, we must cutback overall cost." So they laid off the night watchman.
Hey Trog! Can you send this one back up the chain and let the Neanderthal who wrote it know that "cut back" is two words? Thanks.
Troglodyte wrote:NOW, WE ARE GOING TO TURN THE BANKING SYSTEM, HEALTH CARE, AND THE AUTO INDUSTRY OVER TO THE SAME GOVERNMENT?
HELLOOO!

Anybody Home?

"America Bless God"
Must be an old e-mail. The gubmint is all but out of the banking business, and if GM has any luck with it's IPO (or did I miss it?) we will soon own stock in one less car company.

Re: How government works.

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:08 am
by Troglodyte
e. rosewater wrote: Were you not paying attention? It was when government stopped meddling that these disasters occurred..
They just backed off and tried to wipe their prints off the crime scene when the :fan: . I wouldn't call this administration's actions 'stopped meddling'..

Re: How government works.

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:13 am
by Troglodyte
John Q. Public wrote: Hey Trog! Can you send this one back up the chain and let the Neanderthal who wrote it know that "cut back" is two words? Thanks.


Must be an old e-mail. The gubmint is all but out of the banking business, and if GM has any luck with it's IPO (or did I miss it?) we will soon own stock in one less car company.
:ROFL: The old 'if you can't argue the points, pick on the 'grammer' ploy.... Wasn't that old if the feds will soon be out of the business...

Re: How government works.

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:23 am
by John Q. Public
Troglodyte wrote:The old 'if you can't argue the points, pick on the 'grammer' ploy....
A misplaced comma is one thing but using a noun thinking it's a verb pretty much speaks to the level of the guy's cognizance.

Re: How government works.

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:33 pm
by GOODave
Now THIS is a fun thread...
:thumbsup:

Re: How government works.

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:18 pm
by Troglodyte
John Q. Public wrote: A misplaced comma is one thing but using a noun thinking it's a verb pretty much speaks to the level of the guy's cognizance.
You gotta say his heart and sentiment is in the right place, and the message is clear even if the grammer isn't A rated.....

Re: How government works.

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:25 pm
by GOODave
e. rosewater wrote: Given how the crack private sector executives ran those industries into the ground, how could the government do worse?
They could do worse because it is not their job to meddle. But I see you've abandoned the pretense of trying to assert they SHOULD have stepped in... in favor of this new pretense that they can't do worse.
Elroy El wrote:Were you not paying attention? It was when government stopped meddling that these disasters occurred.
You were definitely not paying attention. When the government forced the lending industry to lower their standards and give housing loans to under-served areas was when the ball of yarn got away from the private sector. Surely you remember the "real estate bubble" bursting? It was in all the papers there for awhile. You can't even pretend that happened apart from government interference.

Re: How government works.

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:12 pm
by Fordama
Troglodyte wrote: You gotta say his heart and sentiment is in the right place, and the message is clear even if the grammer isn't A rated.....
The message is gibberish.

Sure, his heart may be in the right place. Heck, I think even bev's heart is in the right place. That doesn't change the fact that she's batcrap crazy, and it doesn't change that this guy is pretty much off on most of his assertions.

Fordama

Re: How government works.

Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:18 pm
by John Q. Public
GOODave wrote:You were definitely not paying attention. When the government forced the lending industry to lower their standards and give housing loans to under-served areas was when the ball of yarn got away from the private sector. Surely you remember the "real estate bubble" bursting? It was in all the papers there for awhile. You can't even pretend that happened apart from government interference.
And you can pretend that it didn't. I might agree with you if you can show me that the government required investment banks to borrow 35 times as much as they could cover or where the ratings services were required to rate junk as investment grade. Bonus points if you can show where the investment houses were required to sell that AAA-rated junk to our pension and 401k funds.

Re: How government works.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:46 am
by Fordama
John Q. Public wrote: And you can pretend that it didn't. I might agree with you if you can show me that the government required investment banks to borrow 35 times as much as they could cover or where the ratings services were required to rate junk as investment grade. Bonus points if you can show where the investment houses were required to sell that AAA-rated junk to our pension and 401k funds.
That's the problem with the whole "government forced them to lower their standards" theory--the government only required a small percentage of loans in particular areas, not the mass number of loans they decided to make. They did that because Wall Street made it attractive, not because the government forced them to lower standards.

Fordama

Re: How government works.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:31 am
by Troglodyte
Fordama wrote:The message is gibberish.

Sure, his heart may be in the right place. Heck, I think even bev's heart is in the right place. That doesn't change the fact that she's batcrap crazy, and it doesn't change that this guy is pretty much off on most of his assertions.

Fordama
Just because the "Great Fraudama" doesn't agree with the message doesn't mean it's gibberish. Show us where he's wrong on the DOE figures..
As a matter of fact show us any government program that hasn't cost several times what they claimed it would cost (and is still bleeding taxpayer's money), took over twice as long to implement than projected, and did anywhere near what they said it would do. I'm even giving you a pass on all the unintended consequences these programs cause. Put up, or shut up, Fraudy

Re: How government works.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:44 am
by Troglodyte
Fordama wrote: That's the problem with the whole "government forced them to lower their standards" theory--the government only required a small percentage of loans in particular areas, not the mass number of loans they decided to make. They did that because Wall Street made it attractive, not because the government forced them to lower standards.

Fordama
Wasn't Wall Street, Fraudy.. The government cracked open the door, and every scam artist and huckster crawled through the crack. This was going on since the late '90s.
Where were the government watchdogs?? Why didn't Fanny Mae reject these loans and pass them back down to the sellers?? That would have stopped it.
The pols and bureaucrats stood by and gleefully watched the bubble and tax base get bigger and knew who they where gonna point at when it burst..

Re: How government works.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:50 am
by e. rosewater
Troglodyte wrote:Wasn't Wall Street, Fraudy.. The government cracked open the door, and every scam artist and huckster crawled through the crack. This was going on since the late '90s.
Where were the government watchdogs?? Why didn't Fanny Mae reject these loans and pass them back down to the sellers?? That would have stopped it.
We had the mirage of government oversight, but not the substance, because of the deregulation mania of the conservative ascendancy over the past 30 years. From understaffing agencies like the SEC (and spare me the porn nonsense – 30 guys in a major agenmcy over x years watching porn is such a drop in the statistical bucket it’s ridiculous, quite aside from its utter irrelevancy to the structural issues that were in play) to restricting its scope of permissible review (remember Phil Gramm’s sneaking a specific statutory exemption from regulation for derivatives trading into a bill ) to the repeal of Depression era limits on financial institutions that had served the economy well to the appointment of regulatory “directors” like Chris Cox who wasn’t so much asleep at the wheel as an unbeliever in using the wheel in the first place, anti-regulatory ideology inspired by Ayn Rand/Milton Friedman free market dogma has come home to roost in many places – in a collapsed coal mine, in the Gulf of Mexico, on your grocery store shelves over the past few years,at your bank (if it’s still the samne one you used three years ago) to the house next door that’s been foreclosed.
Troglodyte wrote:The pols and bureaucrats stood by and gleefully watched the bubble and tax base get bigger and knew who they where gonna point at when it burst..
Most notably the Bush followers who made the ownership society a point of their ideology and primary point of pride in Bush's acceptance speech at the 2004 RNC.

Re: How government works.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:55 am
by John Q. Public
Troglodyte wrote: Just because the "Great Fraudama" doesn't agree with the message doesn't mean it's gibberish. Show us where he's wrong on the DOE figures..
As a matter of fact show us any government program that hasn't cost several times what they claimed it would cost (and is still bleeding taxpayer's money), took over twice as long to implement than projected, and did anywhere near what they said it would do. I'm even giving you a pass on all the unintended consequences these programs cause. Put up, or shut up, Fraudy
I'm not Fordy, but... they tried to increase CAFE standards but Bush vetoed it - twice, I think. They've tried to encourage us to buy smaller, more fuel efficient cars and use public transportation but we've ignored them. Short of rationing gas and heating oil or magically creating usable domestic oil deposits, what would you like them to do?

Re: How government works.

Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:03 am
by John Q. Public
Troglodyte wrote:The pols and bureaucrats stood by and gleefully watched the bubble and tax base get bigger and knew who they where gonna point at when it burst..
Do you think they knew that people like you were going to blame the guy who inherited their mess?