Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

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Wiley
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Wiley » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:38 pm

Vilepagan wrote:
But it is on display, and that's not an accident. If he's going to display his religion for all to see he's got to expect people to react to it and those reactions will vary. Reading the entire article it's clear that some of his teammates and fellow players have spoken out about it and he's been mocked on the field for it.

You know I'm not a Christian, but if I was I don't think I'd go in for that sort of public display. I don't really understand the guys that run into the end zone and drop to one knee, maybe point at the sky...do they really think God cares about the football game....and what about the guy on the other team praying just as hard?

If you want the freedom to proclaim your religion publicly, others must have the freedom to publicly denounce your religion.
In every televised football game there are literally hundreds of screen shots and instant replays. Maybe three or four show Tebow outwardly expressing his faith and of course during interviews he will always thank God for giving him his abilities. It's what Christian athletes do. It's not like any football fan would be deluged with Tebow's few personal displays during a game.

First off I don't believe you watch football. Secondly, if you watched the Broncos or Sports Center you've allowed yourself to get caught up in the media's attraction to Tim Tebow and the cross in carries on his back. Fox carries a lot of Tebow, and I know you watch the programs so no complaining. So you're not a Christian. It appears you are more interested in exercising your freedom of speech rather than honoring other's freedom to worship.

No need for a lengthy reply... you've already expressed yourself completely.
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Vilepagan
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:10 am

Wiley wrote:In every televised football game there are literally hundreds of screen shots and instant replays. Maybe three or four show Tebow outwardly expressing his faith and of course during interviews he will always thank God for giving him his abilities.
So?
It's what Christian athletes do.
It's what some few Christian athletes do. No doubt many more observe their faith more discreetly.
It's not like any football fan would be deluged with Tebow's few personal displays during a game.
It's not like that's relevant in any way.
First off I don't believe you watch football.
Which means what?
Secondly, if you watched the Broncos or Sports Center you've allowed yourself to get caught up in the media's attraction to Tim Tebow and the cross in carries on his back.
I have no idea what you were trying to say here.
Fox carries a lot of Tebow, and I know you watch the programs so no complaining.
You're not making sense. The only time I watch FOX is when the Packer game isn't available on another channel and the occasional episode of House. (whether you believe that or not)
It appears you are more interested in exercising your freedom of speech rather than honoring other's freedom to worship.
What would make you say that? You obviously read my post, so why are you pretending you didn't understand it? Is that what you got from my statement: "If you want the freedom to proclaim your religion publicly, others must have the freedom to publicly denounce your religion."

Freedom goes both ways. You seem to want the freedom to worship your religion but you don't think criticism of it should be allowed.
No need for a lengthy reply... you've already expressed yourself completely.
I hope it wasn't too long for you. ;)
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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SLK230
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by SLK230 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:34 am

Vilepagan wrote:
But it is on display, and that's not an accident. If he's going to display his religion for all to see he's got to expect people to react to it and those reactions will vary. Reading the entire article it's clear that some of his teammates and fellow players have spoken out about it and he's been mocked on the field for it.

You know I'm not a Christian, but if I was I don't think I'd go in for that sort of public display. I don't really understand the guys that run into the end zone and drop to one knee, maybe point at the sky...do they really think God cares about the football game....and what about the guy on the other team praying just as hard?

If you want the freedom to proclaim your religion publicly, others must have the freedom to publicly denounce your religion.
Does he show a cross or any other symbol of his religion?
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by SLK230 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:37 am

GOODave wrote: But he's not proselytizing. He's observing his own faith in front of a lot of people. Proselytizing would be him trying to recruit others: I don't see his display being intended to convert (or recruit) anyone.

Funny how the dog killing QB got a lot less criticism then Tebow.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by oceanvue » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:39 am

SLK230 wrote:
Does he show a cross or any other symbol of his religion?

I read he wears a lot of bling under his uniform but I don't know if any of them are crosses
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SLK230
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by SLK230 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:41 am

Omar Bongo wrote:
"Forget it, Vile. It's Fox "News"."

Image

How very open minded of you. Do always judge everything by the outward appearance or do you look for the content?
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by oceanvue » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:21 am

my feeling is if he wants to pray or thank God than who cares. He'd be doing it whether the camera was on him or not so it's his world we're intruding on not ours that he is.
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Red
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Red » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:36 am

oceanvue wrote:my feeling is if he wants to pray or thank God than who cares. He'd be doing it whether the camera was on him or not so it's his world we're intruding on not ours that he is.
Tebow is awsome! The media would rather praise brett farve.
Liberalism is like an out-of-control 5 year old at McDonalds. All the talking to and admonishment won't make a difference. They have no concept of right or wrong, they are nothing more than narcissists.

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Parrotpaul » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:49 am

Red wrote:
Tebow is awsome! The media would rather praise brett farve.
Praise Brett Favre? Which sports media do you watch...Favre has been the butt of bunches of jokes...especially since several teams have lost QBs, and there aren't many available NFL experienced QBs to fill the holes. Favre has been a fav topic because of that....much has been jocular bantering .
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Red » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:06 am

Parrotpaul wrote: Praise Brett Favre? Which sports media do you watch...Favre has been the butt of bunches of jokes...especially since several teams have lost QBs, and there aren't many available NFL experienced QBs to fill the holes. Favre has been a fav topic because of that....much has been jocular bantering .
It was a joke. I forgot the green smiley.
Liberalism is like an out-of-control 5 year old at McDonalds. All the talking to and admonishment won't make a difference. They have no concept of right or wrong, they are nothing more than narcissists.

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Wabash » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:05 am

Wiley wrote:In every televised football game there are literally hundreds of screen shots and instant replays. Maybe three or four show Tebow outwardly expressing his faith and of course during interviews he will always thank God for giving him his abilities. It's what Christian athletes do. It's not like any football fan would be deluged with Tebow's few personal displays during a game.

First off I don't believe you watch football. Secondly, if you watched the Broncos or Sports Center you've allowed yourself to get caught up in the media's attraction to Tim Tebow and the cross in carries on his back. Fox carries a lot of Tebow, and I know you watch the programs so no complaining. So you're not a Christian. It appears you are more interested in exercising your freedom of speech rather than honoring other's freedom to worship.

No need for a lengthy reply... you've already expressed yourself completely.
Always enjoy reading conservatives claiming victimhood. Especially given the criticisms they express towards those not in lock step with their very narrow beliefs.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:08 am

SLK230 wrote:Does he show a cross or any other symbol of his religion?
I haven't the faintest idea...why do you ask?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:11 am

SLK230 wrote:Funny how the dog killing QB got a lot less criticism then Tebow.
Funny how your statements have no basis in reality. Assuming you're talking about Vick, he went to prison, but don't let that stop you from making absurd remarks about how he received "less criticism".
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by SLK230 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:20 am

Vilepagan wrote:
Funny how your statements have no basis in reality. Assuming you're talking about Vick, he went to prison, but don't let that stop you from making absurd remarks about how he received "less criticism".
Your ability to distort is amazing.

We are talking about the fans who made less fuss and were so willing to forgive the dog killer before and after he went to prison.

Tebow is no big deal compared to the dog killer.

BTW..... you asked " Assuming you're talking about Vick" do you know of any other dog killing QB's?
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by SLK230 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:21 am

Vilepagan wrote:
I haven't the faintest idea...why do you ask?
Well if all he does is drop to one knee what is the big deal?
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by SoMelo » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:27 am

Vilepagan wrote:
Funny how your statements have no basis in reality. Assuming you're talking about Vick, he went to prison, but don't let that stop you from making absurd remarks about how he received "less criticism".
I'm guessing 18 months in Leavenworth, six more in a halfway house, losing $100 million and three years in the prime of his career wasn't steep enough. --:--

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:32 am

SLK230 wrote:Your ability to distort is amazing.

We are talking about the fans who made less fuss and were so willing to forgive the dog killer before and after he went to prison.
No, that's who you are apparently talking about now...any reason you decided to bring them into the discussion? They aren't here, and I have no idea what their opinion is or how it's relevant to the discussion of football players displaying their religion on the field...can you explain?
Tebow is no big deal compared to the dog killer.
I'm sure he's no big deal compared to Jack The Ripper either..what the heck is your point? You started this thread...why?
BTW..... you asked " Assuming you're talking about Vick" do you know of any other dog killing QB's?
No...hence my assumption.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Wiley
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Wiley » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:50 am

Wiley wrote:It appears you are more interested in exercising your freedom of speech rather than honoring other's freedom to worship.
Vilepagan wrote: "If you want the freedom to proclaim your religion publicly, others must have the freedom to publicly denounce your religion."
Does that work the same way as a religious person watching two queers kissing on a street corner in San Francisco. You oppose the same freedom of exhibition without criticism you've so desparately seeked for homosexuals. You abhor the condemnation yet your hypocrisy allows you to judge the freedom of exhibition of others.
Vilepagan wrote:Freedom goes both ways. You seem to want the freedom to worship your religion but you don't think criticism of it should be allowed.
It would be hard to criticise if all religious folks professed their faith in the closet - wouldn't it.
Wiley wrote:No need for a lengthy reply... you've already expressed yourself completely.
Vilepagan wrote:I hope it wasn't too long for you. ;)
It wasn't the length but rather the content.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Notorious » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:58 am

SLK230 wrote:

Funny how the dog killing QB got a lot less criticism then Tebow.
You don't watch sports do you?

Tebow's religion is a blurb, it barely gets picked up on the radar by people who carry sports. It's mentioned in passing.

Vick was ostracized, and was talked about for years. He was the focus of media coverage for a good 6 months when the story broke. Don't ever compare the two because Vick got exactly what he deserved and he paid his debt to society.

Is Tim Tebow going to blame God when he gets injured? Or plays badly? Is he going to say thanks God for allowing me to throw an interception that cost my team the game? More importantly is he going to say that on national TV? If not then don't thank him when it's going well, then decide he had no part in it when you're doing poorly.

At least Stevie Johnson actually blamed God when he dropped the ball in the endzone last year.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:05 am

SLK230 wrote:Well if all he does is drop to one knee what is the big deal?
Who said there was a big deal?

I will say that at least you're not as dishonest as the author of the op-ed you posted. According to the author Tebow is being persecuted for nothing he's done publicly:

There aren’t many superstars for evangelical kids to admire – but Tebow is one of those guys. He’s an athlete who “walks the walk.” He’s passionate about his relationship with Jesus Christ. He prays. He studies his Bible. And he also wins football games.

And for that – he’s been subjected to ridicule.


I guess we're left to guess that the phrases "walks the walk" and "passionate about his relationship with Jesus" means that he was displaying his religion publicly in some way, because otherwise Tebow is being picked on for praying, reading the Bible, and winning games, an idea I'm sure the author was trying to engender in his readers.

Anyway, according to the "article" you linked to, Tebow's public behavior wasn't just "taking a knee" (I wouldn't know if this is true because I don't think I've ever seen the man play, but that's what your op-ed piece alleges).

But the attacks on Tebow started long before he started playing professional football. NBC Sports reported on an incident that occurred at a Scouting Combine. Tebow suggested the group pray. Another player told him to “shut the f*** up.”

Former Broncos quarterback Jake Plummer told the Daily Mail, “I wish he’d just shut up after a game and go hug his teammates.”

A particular disappointment has been the criticism levied against Tebow by his fellow Christians.

“It seems Tebow might help himself and the kingdom by getting off his knees, taking the verses off of his face, and being faithful to Christ without the public acts like all the other Christians in the NFL have done for decades,” wrote Anthony Bradley, an associate professor of theology and ethics at The Kings College in New York City, in World Magazine.


Honestly SLK, I feel these guys are being paid a lot of money to play football, and they have no business trying to make any religious statements while they're on the job.

When someone insists on praying in my presence, the prayer doesn't bother me at all, but the thought that they wanted me to hear it for some reason does. The player who told Tebow to "shut the f*** up" was exactly right (if perhaps a bit direct)...who the hell is Tebow to tell anyone else it's the time to pray?

As a fellow atheist I'd like to ask a couple questions.

Why do you think it is that we don't see any Jewish or Muslim football players displaying their religion on the field or asking their huddle-mates to praise Allah (or whatever)?

Do you think the Christians in this thread would be as vocal in their support of Tebow if he were a Muslim or a Jew?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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