Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

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Wabash
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Wabash » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:19 am

Vilepagan wrote:Do you think the Christians in this thread would be as vocal in their support of Tebow if he were a Muslim or a Jew?
BING--FRACKIN'--OHHH!!!
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:24 am

Wiley wrote:Does that work the same way as a religious person watching two queers kissing on a street corner in San Francisco.
It works the same way certainly, but of course being "queer" isn't a religion.
You oppose the same freedom of exhibition without criticism you've so desparately seeked for homosexuals.
No, I don't believe I've ever demanded that gays be free from criticism, only that they be subject to the same rules as anyone else. If you're going to criticize gays for kissing in public I'd expect you to criticize two straight people for kissing in public. ("you" being whoever is doing the criticizing)

But you digress. This isn't about "public behavior" only, it's also about them being sports figures. They have a captive audience, and a large part of it is young people. Some of those children that Tebow is talking to are Jewish and Muslim and atheist...his job is to play football, and when the parents of those Jews and Muslims and atheists tune in with their kids, should they be subjected to Tebow's religious opinions?

And yes, before you ask, I'd criticize a player if he were advocating "gay" issues in this way.
You abhor the condemnation yet your hypocrisy allows you to judge the freedom of exhibition of others.
No, I'd feel the same way if this discussion were about a football player who was gay. He's being paid to play football, not be Christian, or be gay.
It would be hard to criticise if all religious folks professed their faith in the closet - wouldn't it.
Sure.
It wasn't the length but rather the content.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard that. ;)

(I hope 18echo is enjoying this)
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Wiley » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:39 am

Notorious wrote: You don't watch sports do you?

Tebow's religion is a blurb, it barely gets picked up on the radar by people who carry sports. It's mentioned in passing.

Vick was ostracized, and was talked about for years. He was the focus of media coverage for a good 6 months when the story broke. Don't ever compare the two because Vick got exactly what he deserved and he paid his debt to society.

Is Tim Tebow going to blame God when he gets injured? Or plays badly? Is he going to say thanks God for allowing me to throw an interception that cost my team the game? More importantly is he going to say that on national TV? If not then don't thank him when it's going well, then decide he had no part in it when you're doing poorly.

At least Stevie Johnson actually blamed God when he dropped the ball in the endzone last year.
Religious football players in the NFL don't pray for victories but rather for the health and welfare of their teammates and opponents. No man of religion believes God fails him when he gives his all and realizes that life and football games are challenged by talent, will and effort. Do you notice that after NFL games thirty or forty player will join on the field in prayer circles? They're not exhibiting their faith to the crowd or media. Obviously there is no comparison of the media's coverage between Vick's off-the-field criminal activities and Tebow's light shining brightly on football by overcoming his talent pundits by winning games - and emotionally displaying his faith and love for God. Tebow is what all fathers should want in a son.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:01 am

Wiley wrote:Religious football players in the NFL don't pray for victories but rather for the health and welfare of their teammates and opponents.
How would you know what they pray for?
Do you notice that after NFL games thirty or forty player will join on the field in prayer circles? They're not exhibiting their faith to the crowd or media.
Who are they exhibiting it to?
Tebow is what all fathers should want in a son.
Don't you mean all Evangelical Christian fathers? I mean, it is the evangelicals that are doing this, not the Lutherans, or the Catholics, or the Presbyterians. Honestly Wiley, would you be so full of praise for Tebow the Mormon, or Tebow the Scientologist?

Isn't at least part of your reason for supporting his choice of venue for his message some agreement with the message itself?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Wiley » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:41 am

Wiley wrote:Does that work the same way as a religious person watching two queers kissing on a street corner in San Francisco.
Vilepagan wrote:It works the same way certainly, but of course being "queer" isn't a religion.
Wiley wrote:Football players from high school to the NFL publicly display their faith on the field in mostly emotional ways. After game interviews will always find religious players giving thanks to God for providing the strength and ability to compete. The next time you happen to watch the end of an NFL game you'll see thirty to forty players of all denominations joining in a prayer circle. Yes, these circles include Jews, Muslims and others.
Wiley wrote:You abhor the condemnation yet your hypocrisy allows you to judge the freedom of exhibition of others.
Vilepagan wrote:No, I'd feel the same way if this discussion were about a football player who was gay. He's being paid to play football, not be Christian, or be gay.
Wiley wrote:Yes, there are also queers in the prayer circles who aren't displaying sexual preferences but giving thanks to their creator.
How 'bout you using the freedom of your TV remote control and the next time I'm in San Francisco I'll just look the other way if something offends me. And if I'm with my grandchildren I'll make sure they're not subject to a "captive audience" of emotional displays and exhibitionism.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:29 pm

Wiley wrote:How 'bout you using the freedom of your TV remote control and the next time I'm in San Francisco I'll just look the other way if something offends me.
That works for me. Maybe someone should suggest that for the author of the trash piece that was posted in the OP.

How about taking a stab at the questions I asked?

Would you be so full of praise for Tebow the Mormon, or Tebow the Scientologist? (or the Muslim or the Jew)

Isn't at least part of your reason for supporting his choice of venue for his message some agreement with the message itself?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:33 pm

An interesting take on the "Tebow Thing".

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/731 ... -tim-tebow
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Notorious » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:43 pm

Wiley wrote:Religious football players in the NFL don't pray for victories but rather for the health and welfare of their teammates and opponents. No man of religion believes God fails him when he gives his all and realizes that life and football games are challenged by talent, will and effort. Do you notice that after NFL games thirty or forty player will join on the field in prayer circles? They're not exhibiting their faith to the crowd or media.
I'm not certain that Tebow doesn't pray for his victories, a lot of the times I think he does. I do however know this is not the norm, and if Tebow doesn't it doesn't really affect my point.

I'm not talking about before Tebow hits the field or when he's praying, most the time people pray for the safety of all people involved. However, he does thank God after playing the game in interviews. He thanks God for being there with him. Go look at the postgame Jets interview. He gets asked a question akin to "What comes over you and allows you to make clutch plays?" He starts by thanking God then thanking his teammates then talking about the game.

God had nothing to do with Tebow making clutch plays, honestly to bring God into sports is an insult to God, imo. It's an insult to think he's involved at all in sports, I would even say the idea of the safety of a player barring serious life altering injury is an insult. Did God not allow the Jets to make a play? Even worse than being an insult, it's just flat out dumb.

The reason Tebow is so divisive is because he's projecting. Some hold him up as a role model in this regard because he speaks his mind and is able to stand up for what he believes in. However others who are atheist are probably put off by his assumption that they want to hear about it, or that even his teammates and opposing players want to hear about it.

Then you have Christians similar to me who feel that he's projecting things that have often disturbed me about the Christian faith. Many of us feel religion is a private matter, and has no place in a secular part of society.

I'm going to stop now because I will get into a large rant about organized religion that I don't really want to get into on here.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by not4u13 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:33 am

This whole thing is much ado about nothing.

There was little rhetoric about Tebow when he was first picked up by the Broncos. It wasn't until he was named the starter and then played horribly ... for a game ... that the critics shredded him. I mean they put Tebow on a skewer and ripped him a new one ... two ... AND three. I don't know what Tebow heard or even if he cared, but since then he has almost willed the Broncos to win after win. A team who couldn't seem to find their legs was suddenly grabbing victories, and in exciting ... come from behind ... ways.

The Broncos are a good team ... not a great team ... but a good team.

The Tebow story is interesting. A rookie quaterback having that much impact on a single team that he can seemingly turn the season around is almost unheard of. As a result, Tebow is going to be in the spotlight and if you watch sports and listen to sports commentaries at all, you know that most of the time it is all about winning. When you win, you are a golden child, when you lose, you are a piece of dirt.

For some reason there is a group of Christians who feel that any time Tebow gets ripped on, it is because of his Christian views. Most sports fans could care less.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by oceanvue » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:45 am

It works the same way certainly, but of course being "queer" isn't a religion.
you know what...that's not a damn bad idea
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Wabash » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:46 am

Notorious wrote: God had nothing to do with Tebow making clutch plays, honestly to bring God into sports is an insult to God, imo. It's an insult to think he's involved at all in sports, I would even say the idea of the safety of a player barring serious life altering injury is an insult. Did God not allow the Jets to make a play? Even worse than being an insult, it's just flat out dumb.
Amen.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Notorious » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:12 am

not4u13 wrote:This whole thing is much ado about nothing.

There was little rhetoric about Tebow when he was first picked up by the Broncos. It wasn't until he was named the starter and then played horribly ... for a game ... that the critics shredded him. I mean they put Tebow on a skewer and ripped him a new one ... two ... AND three. I don't know what Tebow heard or even if he cared, but since then he has almost willed the Broncos to win after win. A team who couldn't seem to find their legs was suddenly grabbing victories, and in exciting ... come from behind ... ways.

The Broncos are a good team ... not a great team ... but a good team.

The Tebow story is interesting. A rookie quaterback having that much impact on a single team that he can seemingly turn the season around is almost unheard of. As a result, Tebow is going to be in the spotlight and if you watch sports and listen to sports commentaries at all, you know that most of the time it is all about winning. When you win, you are a golden child, when you lose, you are a piece of dirt.

For some reason there is a group of Christians who feel that any time Tebow gets ripped on, it is because of his Christian views. Most sports fans could care less.
1. False, Tebow has been heavily criticized since being drafted in the first round by the Denver Broncos. Josh McDaniels pretty much lost his job over it. He was criticized heavily before the draft and during his first year. If you meant to say it wasn't until lately that he was criticized for how he represents his beliefs, I'd say that it's become louder. Even in college people were arguing that his bible verses on the eye black was offensive.

2. Tebow isn't a rookie.
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by oceanvue » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:29 am

So if you find Tebow actions offensive what about this? Displaying body ink with religious significance

Image
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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:47 am

oceanvue wrote:So if you find Tebow actions offensive what about this? Displaying body ink with religious significance

Image
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. - Phillipians 4:13

You gotta love that word "strengththeneth" ;)
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by SLK230 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:27 am

Vilepagan wrote:
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. - Phillipians 4:13

You gotta love that word "strengththeneth" ;)
Do you make fun of everyones shortcomings or just Christians?
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:49 am

SLK230 wrote:Do you make fun of everyones shortcomings or just Christians?
I didn't realize the word "strengththeneth" was a Christian...who knew? :roll:
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by SLK230 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:02 am

Vilepagan wrote:
I didn't realize the word "strengththeneth" was a Christian...who knew? :roll:

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. - Phillipians 4:13

The only place I can find that word is in the above passage from the Christian bible.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by SoMelo » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:10 am

SLK230 wrote:

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. - Phillipians 4:13

The only place I can find that word is in the above passage from the Christian bible.
Yeah... Christ was definitely here... As a couple fists and a foot :thumbsup:

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by Vilepagan » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:31 am

SLK230 wrote:I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. - Phillipians 4:13

The only place I can find that word is in the above passage from the Christian bible.
Pray tell, what is your point SLK?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Opinion: Anti-Christian Bigots Prey on Tebow

Post by oceanvue » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:34 am

maybe God has a lisp
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