So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

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SLK230
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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by SLK230 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:15 am

Parrotpaul wrote:Define it any way you choose, and call it anything you like; it is still health insurance. If you die, no one gets anything...except for a death benefit that goes to the underage children of a working parent.

Where's the nitpicking?

Social Security is health insurance????

When did that happen?
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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SLK230
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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by SLK230 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:21 am

Lets get back on topic and to my answer to wabash's statement:




Wabash wrote:


Conservatives claim they don't like socialism. But they do indeed embrace socialist programs.Some of the most extreme conservatives I've ever met are on Social Security.

You must be joking. I am a Conservative and on Social Security. Why shouldn't I be???????????????

================================================================


I paid hundred's of thousands of dollars into it over my approximate 40 year work history. Why in the world should I turn it down?

If I had a choice I never would have joined it as it is one the worst/stupidest investments you can ever make. In fact it is downright idiotic as an investment. Yet of course we are forced to participate in this ponzi scheme called Social Security.

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Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Parrotpaul » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:41 am

Parrotpaul wrote:Define it any way you choose, and call it anything you like; it is still health insurance. If you die, no one gets anything...except for a death benefit that goes to the underage children of a working parent.

Where's the nitpicking?
SLK230 wrote:Social Security is health insurance????

When did that happen?
I'm sorry if there is confusion. I never stated SS was or is health insurance.....my health insurance statement was in answer to your question...
SLK230 wrote:
What kind of insurance doesn't pay you or your beneficiary anything if you die before you reach retirement age? Or if you haven't gotten in 40 quarters of work?
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Wabash
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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:32 am

SLK230 wrote:Lets get back on topic and to my answer to wabash's statement:
You must be joking. I am a Conservative and on Social Security. Why shouldn't I be???????????????
No joke. Social Security is socialism. You just confirmed my point.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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SLK230
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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by SLK230 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:43 am

Wabash wrote: No joke. Social Security is socialism. You just confirmed my point.
Confirmed what? What point? I never said it wasn't socialistic program. Do you not read what I post?
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:44 am

SLK230 wrote:
Confirmed what? What point? I never said it wasn't socialistic program. Do you not read what I post?
Confirmed that conservatives embrace socialism when they benefit. I didn't say that you didn't say that Social Security wasn't socialism. Do you not read what I post?
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by OldMan » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:56 am

Wabash wrote: No joke. Social Security is socialism.
Yes Social Security is socialism. It is forced upon all, apparently under the notion, espoused by FDR and friends, that people cannot plan for old age by themselves, so the government (ie other people that do plan for themselves) should step in and do the job instead. And somehow it morphed, from something that applied to the very elderly (for the time), into a long term retirement benefit.

As a perfect example of government gone wild, the program is now upside down in a big way, because it is run by politics, and not sound actuarial methods. The Trust Fund has been raided in a way that would throw private retirement fund managers into jail. A perfect example of how the government involvement in private matters cannot stand the test of time.

And, if I am forced into contributing without a choice, and I have the opportunity to get some of it back, I would be foolish to not get back what was taken from me in the first place.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:59 am

OldMan wrote: Yes Social Security is socialism. It is forced upon all, apparently under the notion, espoused by FDR and friends, that people cannot plan for old age by themselves, so the government (ie other people that do plan for themselves) should step in and do the job instead. And somehow it morphed, from something that applied to the very elderly (for the time), into a long term retirement benefit.

As a perfect example of government gone wild, the program is now upside down in a big way, because it is run by politics, and not sound actuarial methods. The Trust Fund has been raided in a way that would throw private retirement fund managers into jail. A perfect example of how the government involvement in private matters cannot stand the test of time.

And, if I am forced into contributing without a choice, and I have the opportunity to get some of it back, I would be foolish to not get back what was taken from me in the first place.
I don't disagree with what you stated. My point is that Social Security is a socialist program that is embraced by conservatives.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by SLK230 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:40 am

Wabash wrote: Confirmed that conservatives embrace socialism when they benefit. I didn't say that you didn't say that Social Security wasn't socialism. Do you not read what I post?
I don't embrace it and never would have been a part of it if I had a choice, but as you know, most of us didn't have a choice.

How stupid would it be to turn it down after paying hundred's of thousands of dollars into it. That is far from an embrace.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Vilepagan » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:48 am

OldMan wrote:Yes Social Security is socialism. It is forced upon all, apparently under the notion, espoused by FDR and friends, that people cannot plan for old age by themselves, so the government (ie other people that do plan for themselves) should step in and do the job instead.
What do you think made them have that notion? I'm guessing it was the large number of the elderly who were living in poverty.
And somehow it morphed, from something that applied to the very elderly (for the time), into a long term retirement benefit.
The program didn't "morph"...we did. We live much longer today than we did in 1935.
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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by OldMan » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:16 am

Vilepagan wrote:
What do you think made them have that notion? I'm guessing it was the large number of the elderly who were living in poverty.



The program didn't "morph"...we did. We live much longer today than we did in 1935.
The government didn't react to the change in the demographics and medical technology, over a period of time that technological change, health, and societal changes were less than now.

So please, tell me why I should trust that health insurance should be run by the same organization that brought us Social Security? How will it work over 20, 50 years maybe, after a whole country has been forced to adopt it, like Social Security?

What, and please be specific, is your proposed solution to the future deficit position of the Social Security entitlement program in this country?

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:38 am

SLK230 wrote:
I don't embrace it and never would have been a part of it if I had a choice, but as you know, most of us didn't have a choice.

How stupid would it be to turn it down after paying hundred's of thousands of dollars into it. That is far from an embrace.
Not my point. I would like to know how many folks pull out more than they contribute. Even if one were to add a 5% compounding rate to assume that would have been what folks would get from investing.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Hanna » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:45 am

Published recently as a letter in the Wall St. Journal:

I agree with the adage: "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one."

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Brooke » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:10 pm

Wabash wrote: I don't disagree with what you stated. My point is that Social Security is a socialist program that is embraced by conservatives.
Why don't you try again? It is not a program EMBRACED by conservatives.
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:07 pm

Brooke wrote: Why don't you try again? It is not a program EMBRACED by conservatives.
Their actions show otherwise.

When they had the opportunity (controlled the White House and both Houses of Congress), they did nothing.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by SLK230 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:14 pm

Wabash wrote: Not my point. I would like to know how many folks pull out more than they contribute. Even if one were to add a 5% compounding rate to assume that would have been what folks would get from investing.

First question is how many people live to retirement age and what happens to the hundreds of thousand of dollars they put in if they don't make it to retirement age.

Next question is why does it matter if you get more out then you put in or not? What does that change? Don't forget life insurance and most other investments lets you name a beneficiary with SS your money dies with you. What a god awful stupid system. Only a liberal the likes FDR could have dreamt up such a dumb system.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:01 pm

SLK230 wrote: First question is how many people live to retirement age and what happens to the hundreds of thousand of dollars they put in if they don't make it to retirement age.
Not relevant.
SLK230 wrote:Next question is why does it matter if you get more out then you put in or not? What does that change?
Because if people are getting out more than put in, it reinforces their belief in socialism.
SLK230 wrote: Don't forget life insurance and most other investments lets you name a beneficiary with SS your money dies with you. What a god awful stupid system. Only a liberal the likes FDR could have dreamt up such a dumb system.
Yet conservatives did nothing to right that system when they had the chance.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by SLK230 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:01 am

Wabash wrote: Not relevant.


Because if people are getting out more than put in, it reinforces their belief in socialism.


Yet conservatives did nothing to right that system when they had the chance.

What a great response. Your answers are a combination of total irrelevance and deflections.

It's funny how whenever you get a question you don't want to answer it becomes irrelevant.

Frankly I am tired of it as it is just plain boring.....
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:09 am

SLK230 wrote:
What a great response.
I agree. Thank you.
SLK230 wrote: Your answers are a combination of total irrelevance and deflections.
Like which ones?
SLK230 wrote:It's funny how whenever you get a question you don't want to answer it becomes irrelevant.
Funnier that you don't see the irrelevance of a question or statement.
SLK230 wrote:Frankly I am tired of it as it is just plain boring.....
Yet you responded anyway.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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