Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

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Troglodyte
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Troglodyte » Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:59 pm

Support gay marriage.. There's already too many people on this earth.
Besides the problem might disappear in a couple of generations.. :lol:
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Fordama
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Fordama » Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:28 pm

Seeing how civil marriage is only a few centuries old, your "thousands of years" is absurd.

As far as being anomalous, there are more people who are gay than those who are naturally blonde.

As far as being natural, homosexual behavior also appears in other species. It is a part of nature.

So basically you are wrong on every single point. But more importantly, you have demonstrated absolutely no rational reason for the government to deny them the right to marriage.

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This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Troglodyte
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Troglodyte » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:07 pm

Liberals are so big on being sure not to even give the appearance of offending anyone.
Yet they insist on offending anyone who doesn't agree with their thinking. I'm sure the gays could offer up another term for their unions, and no one would object to their rights. It is offensive to a lot of Christians to call a gay union a marriage, but that's Okay because Christians are not a "protected" coddled group.
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Fordama
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Fordama » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:28 pm

Who gives a rat's patooty what "Christians" call it, it's what the government says it is that legally counts.

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This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Vilepagan
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:31 am

Liberals are so big on being sure not to even give the appearance of offending anyone.
Yet they insist on offending anyone who doesn't agree with their thinking.


As opposed to those good citizens who disagree with gays getting married so they refer to them as "perverts", "sinners", or perhaps an "aberration"?

I think it's obvious who is being offensive on this issue, and it's not the gays.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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SoMelo
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by SoMelo » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:13 am

Well Christians refer to it as "holy matrimony" a state instituted and ordained by God for the lifelong relationship between one man as husband and one woman as wife. But that's a little hypocritical with divorce rates trending over 50%. --:--

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Troglodyte
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Troglodyte » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:05 am

Two different types of offense going on here, Vile. Neither one is right..
One simple word change could solve the whole probable. Why push it?
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by MDDad » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:20 pm

By now, I think every American with an IQ over 80 believes that gays should receive all legal rights that come with being married. The issue seems to be with the use of the terms "marriage", "matrimony" and "getting married", because those words are imbued with a kind of historical and religious sanctity that is precious and inviolable to many.

The solution seems simple. All unions, whether straight or gay, receive the same legal rights. Marriage, matrimony and getting married are the terms used by heterosexuals, while garriage, gatrimony and getting garried are used by gays. Where's the problem?

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Parrotpaul
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Parrotpaul » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:44 pm

I have no problem with any of those words...marriage, matrimony, getting married...in relation to gays. Two gay folks getting married has no impact on my life, or my wife's life, or our life together, and I suspect it has no impact on any other hetero marriages...unless someone is being unfaithful.

There is no problem as I see it. Why set up a dichotomy that has separate but equal as its inherent driving philosophy. That creates more barriers, IMO. We have always been an adaptive people. Why would this change that?
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Brooke
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Brooke » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:14 pm

Parrotpaul wrote: You mention your children being more open minded than you, but you qualified that by saying you were like them but have become less open-minded as you grew older. I'm not trying to badger, but what would cause someone to begin to close their mind as they grew older? That seems to be how the 60's kids grew older...they closed off much of what they believed, and they raised their kids differently than one would have thought they would. Do you follow your parents values and politics, or are they different?
I don't agree that I have become close-minded or have closed my mind. I was naive when I was younger and more readily accepted the bad behavior of others, and that almost always led to the aggressor taking advantage of other people. As I grew older, I saw that all of us would be much better off if we upheld higher standards for ourselves and others.

Being a parent is invaluable in sorting out what is important. All parents want their children to be happy and well adjusted. In order for that to happen parents must teach their kids how to get along in the world. Not only how to get along with others, but how to handle relationships with all ages and different personality types. This is in addition to guiding them and instilling the value and necessity of a good education so their adult lives will be worthwhile and enjoyable. Also keeping them away from drugs and alcohol. There is a lot of responsibility in raising children.

One of the most important lessons to be learned is to be honest. Which is something we don't see much of from many of the forum members here that I find appalling. Some of you treat this venue as a big joke; that translates into showing off and patting themselves on the back for being so clever. As if being a wise guy is superior to articulating a reasonable argument and being right about serious political and social issues. It is the template of a loser who knows he cannot compete in honest debate so he joins in however he can.

This kind of behavior goes against everything that parents are trying to instill in their children to be successful and well adjusted adults. Lying is de rigueur, bad character is desirable; when in real life no one with intelligence would be friends with or trust a lying, back stabbing, selfish person who enjoys trying to humiliate others.

Did I get off-track here? :D Anyway, I am certainly not close-minded, I am wiser and smarter than I was when I was younger. I detest people who try to take advantage of others. I have no respect for people who refuse to be honest and fair whether it is political discussions or selling something. Everyone should play by the rules and I have no sympathy for those who don't, no matter if they were abused as children or not. Or if they have dark skin or come from a third world country.

Which leads to something else. So often people expect kids who have had rotten childhoods to grow up and do the same to their children. When it makes sense for them to make the lives of their children as happy as possible because they know what it feels like to be abused. Backward thinking prevails for those who love victims.
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

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Brooke
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Brooke » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:31 pm

I am not talking about civil marriages Fordama. I mean the overall norm for people throughout history has been unions between a man and a woman. Many marriages are not civil marriages, but are performed in religious ceremonies. Same sex marriages have never been the norm.

Homosexuality in animals is an aberration. It is not normal.
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

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Parrotpaul
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Parrotpaul » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:39 pm

This is going well, and I appreciate your candor and honesty, but this statement....

"One of the most important lessons to be learned is to be honest. Which is something we don't see much of from many of the forum members here that I find appalling. Some of you treat this venue as a big joke; that translates into showing off and patting themselves on the back for being so clever. As if being a wise guy is superior to articulating a reasonable argument and being right about serious political and social issues. It is the template of a loser who knows he cannot compete in honest debate so he joins in however he can."

If we are being honest, and I know how much you support that quality, I would think your using the statement starting with. "Some of you......," would be to generalize the problem you have chosen to prioritize. If we are going to be honest, who are "some of the people" you speak about? You have chosen to interject some purely controversial and personal opinion into your narrative. It takes away from the rest of the piece. It dilutes the good stuff with some stuff that was better omitted. Somewhere in your writing process you chose to digress, but you did catch yourself. Why didn't you just edit out that part? It didn't advance the premise of the post and stood out to me as gratuitous editorializing, and you set up your behavior as being superior to others' behaviors.
Last edited by Parrotpaul on Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Brooke
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Brooke » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:40 pm

Vilepagan wrote: As opposed to those good citizens who disagree with gays getting married so they refer to them as "perverts", "sinners", or perhaps an "aberration"?

I think it's obvious who is being offensive on this issue, and it's not the gays.
And I think it is offensive that you think it is normal for junior high and high school students to study reading material that portrays pedophiles in a sympathetic light. Or even to be mentioned at all. Why are you so eager to introduce sexually explicit material to young kids? They have access to that stuff outside school. It has no place in our schools.

I also think it is highly offensive that you eagerly promote the handing out of condoms at high school dances.

Both are totally inappropriate and if you were a parent you would know that.

But, if you disagree, make your case and answer my questions. Tell me why it is important to devote limited class time to the study of pedophiles especially when portrayed as sympathetic?

Why is it important for teachers to hand out condoms to students at school dances?
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

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Parrotpaul
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Parrotpaul » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:53 pm

Want me to tell you why, Bev. Because kiddos from the dawn of time have gone into dark places horny as four-balled tomcats and commenced to do the wild thing. Many don't or didn't bother with condoms for a variety of reasons. Kids get pregnant...condoms prevent pregnancy. Many parents believe by refusing to look at some pretty typical teen-age behavior and take no proactive defense measures, but by trusting their kid, it won't happen to their kid. Teen age disease and pregnancies happen across the entire spectrum of familes out there. Teachers tend to be more pragmatic about your kids. They know what kids do...they chaperone dances; they walk through the parking lots during night time school activities; they were once kids themselves, and they try to at least keep the kids free from disease and free from an unwanted pregnancy. Kids are still screwing in cars, when parents are away, at summer camps, behind the swimming pool, and so forth. Sorry....that's the reality for many adolescents...many do OK, some don't.
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Brooke
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Brooke » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:58 pm

Parrotpaul wrote? If we are being honest, and I know how much you support that quality, I would think your using the statement starting with. "Some of you......," would be to generalize the problem you have chosen to prioritize. If we are going to be honest, who are "some of the people" you speak about?


Obviously, because I would be banned from the forum.
Parrotpaul wrote: You have chosen to interject some purely controversial and personal opinion into your narrative. It takes away from the rest of the piece. It dilutes the good stuff with some stuff that was better omitted. Somewhere in your writing process you chose to digress, but you did catch yourself. Why didn't you just edit out that part?
It is only controversial to those who practice the behavior I described. It is a fact, Parrotpaul, everybody knows it. I have put up with it for years on both forums.

I posted it because I want it stopped. We are all adults here; this would be a better place if the immature show-offs with limited resources elevated their attitudes and tried to behave like responsible adults.

In addition, I related that kind of behavior to raising children. It is the total opposite of what parents teach their children. It is uncivilized behavior.
Parrotpaul wrote:It didn't advance the premise of the post and stood out to me as gratuitous editorializing, and you set up your behavior as being superior to others' behaviors.
It did advance the premise of the post. And calling attention to uncivilized adult behavior is not gratuitous, it is honest observation that impacts other forum members negatively. It is harmful, it doesn't benefit anyone or any topic.

Parrotpaul, why wouldn't I set up my behavior as superior to those who act immaturely and with hostility? Why would you ask such a strange question? Don't you accept the reality of bad behavior?
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

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Parrotpaul
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Parrotpaul » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:06 pm

I don't believe you would be banned for naming the people you continue to generalize about. JQP?
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Parrotpaul
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Parrotpaul » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:32 pm

Here's some more about adolescent sexuality

Adolescent sexuality in the United States relates to the sexuality of American adolescents and its place in American society, both in terms of their feelings, behaviors and development and in terms of the response of the government, educators and interested groups.

According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), in the year 2007, 35% of US high school students were currently sexually active and 47.8% of US high school students reported having had sexual intercourse.[1] This percentage has decreased slightly since 1991.[2] According to a 1994 study, every year an estimated one in four sexually active teens contracts a sexually transmitted infection (STI).[3] Teenage pregnancy is four times as prevalent in the United States as in the European Union.[4]

In 1999, a Kaiser Family Foundation study found that 95% of public secondary schools offered sex education programs. More than half of the schools in the study followed a comprehensive approach that included information about both abstinence and contraception, while approximately one third of schools provided students with abstinence-only sex education.[5] In 2002, most Americans favored the comprehensive approach.[5] A 2000 study found that almost all schools included information about HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, in their curricula.[5] There have been efforts among social conservatives in the US government to limit sex education in public schools to abstinence-only sex education curricula.[5]
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Vilepagan
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:55 pm

And I think it is offensive that you think...

There was nothing in your response that was on topic, and I'm not at all interested in yet again reading what you imagine I think.

What you write about gays is offensive which makes your complaints about gay marriage offending you rather moot...I don't have to imagine it, it's there for everyone to read.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Fordama
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by Fordama » Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:32 pm

I am not talking about civil marriages Fordama.

Excellent. That means that all your thoughts on the issue are of no use to anyone besides yourself as the issue is indeed civil marriage. That's what the government does.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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tLIB
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Re: Marriage equality ... how far do we go?

Post by tLIB » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:10 pm

Trog wrote:

One simple word change could solve the whole probable. Why push it?
Are you talking about changing the government sponsored word from marriage to civil union?
SoMelo wrote:

Well Christians refer to it as "holy matrimony" a state instituted and ordained by God

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