Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

User avatar
Vilepagan
Posts: 12548
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:07 am

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Vilepagan » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:25 pm

Vilepagan, I have made it perfectly clear that native born American warrior/heroes should have ships named after them before a naturalized Mexican warrior/hero. There are no doubt many who deserve that honor before Perlata.

Yes Brooke, but what you have failed to explain, yet again, is what makes "native born" Americans more deserving than "naturalized" Americans?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

MDDad
Posts: 12125
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by MDDad » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:50 pm

Brooke, there have been dozens of times when you've told everyone here that "the rule of law" was something to be admired and enforced in this country. Well, the rule of law states that there is no difference between a native-born citizen and one who has been naturalized, except that the naturalized citizen can never be elected president. If you insist there be a class difference between the two, it's you who advocates violating the very rule of law that you always claim to hold dear. I guess when the law stands in opposition to the warped values that you have, you conveniently ignore it, right?

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 24547
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Wabash » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:01 pm

John Q. Public wrote:p.s. I don't know about the other vets here, but the "warrior/hero" thing is just a little bizarre to this one.
I doubt anyone in combat woke up one day and said, "I think today is a good day to go win a medal."

Then of course there is the line from Napoleon.

"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon."
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

User avatar
Brooke
Posts: 21580
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:51 am

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Brooke » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:34 pm

JQP: p.s. I don't know about the other vets here, but the "warrior/hero" thing is just a little bizarre to this one.
Why bizarre? Or should we start naming our battle ships after deserters like Bergdahl?
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

User avatar
Brooke
Posts: 21580
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:51 am

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Brooke » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:37 pm

You are way out there on this one MDDad. Why is that; what is your problem?

If someone isn't qualified to be president then he or she should not be honored by naming a battle ship after them.
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 19736
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:57 pm

MDDad wrote:Well, the rule of law states that there is no difference between a native-born citizen and one who has been naturalized, except that the naturalized citizen can never be elected president.
Aw, you're just saying that because you aren't a "real" citizen. Like... Bergdahl. :mrgreen:

I say we start a petition to name a ship after Trog. The USS Trog. Has a nice ring to it.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Parrotpaul
Posts: 33550
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:14 pm

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Parrotpaul » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:04 am

If someone isn't qualified to be president then he or she should not be honored by naming a battle ship after them.

Battleships were named after states... don't you know anything?
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

Reconquista Primero
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:41 am

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Reconquista Primero » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:28 am

Brooke wrote: If someone isn't qualified to be president then he or she should not be honored by naming a battle ship after them.
Brooke: You really need to think before you post. As you are aware, the Constitution imposes a minimum age requirement for somebody to be president. Under your less than well thought out statement, a native born American (since you delight in having different tiers of Americans) who does something valiant in battle and pays the ultimate sacrifice when (s)he is under 35 shouldn't have a ship named after him/her because that person is not qualified to be president. What an absurd idea.

I really think this thread has gone down the rabbit hole. An American citizen (it really doesn't matter how the citizenship was bestowed) is awarded the Navy Cross for something done in combat that costs him his life and Brooke is complaining about it and now wants to bring in Bergdahl, who might be at the opposite end of the spectrum.

I am sure there are a number of factors that go into naming a warship and some of those factors are political. That's just the way it is. There are always other people equally deserving of the honor. In this instance, Sgt. Peralta, an American citizen, got the nod.

The rest of you might have noticed that I have reduced my posts on Brooke threads. That is because I think she is either a troll or an idiot (this thread suggests the latter) and to respond to her diminishes me and, indeed, the rest of this board. I made an exception in this case because she is attacking a citizen who stood on the wall for her and she won't accept that because of the Marine's heritage.
Last edited by Reconquista Primero on Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Worst choices for president in my 35 + years of voting.

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 24547
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Wabash » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:38 am

Brooke wrote:If someone isn't qualified to be president then he or she should not be honored by naming a battle ship after them.
Then we should rename the:

USS John Barry

John Paul Jones

and certainly the:

USS Winston Churchill.

None of those men would qualify to be president today. John Paul Jones ended up serving with the Russian navy.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 24547
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Wabash » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:56 am

Reconquista Primero wrote: Brooke: You really need to think before you post. As you are aware, the Constitution imposes a minimum age requirement for somebody to be president. Under your less than well thought out statement, a native born American (since you delight in having different tiers of Americans) who does something valiant in battle and pays the ultimate sacrifice when (s)he is under 35 shouldn't have a ship named after him/her because that person is not qualified to be president. What an absurd idea.
Interesting observation. A quick perusal of ship namesakes that would require renaming include:

USS Benfold
USS Cole
USS Cook
USS Fitzgerald
USS Gonzalez (though I'm sure Brooke wouldn't mind that one)
USS Dunham
USS Mason
USS McFaul
USS Murphy
USS Oscar Austin
USS Sterett
USS Stethem
USS Sullivan Brothers (all four of them were under 35)

And as I have pointed out. Numerous ships are named after individuals who were never in the military. They were high ranking cabinet officials (aka well connected) or politicians. I'll take the heroism of the Peralta's of the world any day over any politician.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

User avatar
Parrotpaul
Posts: 33550
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:14 pm

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Parrotpaul » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:17 am

Lütjens was the lead ship of three destroyers...Lütjens , Mölders, and Rommel built at the Bath Iron Works in Bath, Maine in the mid-late 1960s for the West German Navy. My mom was an RN in the First Aid Department at the BIW, and she refused to work while a West German flag flew on this ship in the shipyard during construction of the three ships... her brother was killed by a German sniper 12/24/1944 during the Battle of the Bulge. She decided to quit and return to private duty nursing. Granted, the ships were built for an allied Navy and were not commissioned US war ships, but bad memories do linger.

The ship was named for Admiral Günther Lütjens, who commanded a battlegroup comprising the German battleship Bismarck and the cruiser Prinz Eugen during Operation Rheinübung (Exercise Rhine). Lütjens was killed when Bismarck was surrounded by overwhelming British naval force on 27 May 1941 in the North Atlantic. She was laid down at Bath Iron Works in Bath, Maine on 1 March 1966 with the hull classification symbol DDG-28. She was launched on 11 August 1967 and commissioned on 22 March 1969. On 14 September 2001, three days after the terrorist attacks on 11 September, the crew of Lütjens manned the rails, and as they approached the destroyers USS Winston S. Churchill and USS Gonzalez, they displayed an American flag and a banner reading "We Stand By You."

After over 30 years of service and a travelled distance of 800,000 nautical miles (1,500,000 km) Lütjens was decommissioned on 18 December 2003. She was the last steam-powered vessel and the last ship classified as a destroyer of the German Navy.


On 3 March 1965 Bath Iron Works got the order to build Mölders and her keel was laid down on 12 April 1966 with the hull number DDG-29. On 13 April 1967 Mölders was launched and christened for Luftwaffe Oberst (Colonel) Werner Mölders by his mother Anne-Marie Mölders. Mölders was commissioned on 23 February 1969 into the 1. Zerstörergeschwader (first destroyer squadron) based in Kiel.

During her 33 years in commission 14,000 sailors served on her under 16 commanders, and she traveled 675,054.6 nautical miles (1,250,201.1 km; 776,839.0 mi). Mölders was decommissioned 28 May 2003 in Wilhelmshaven.

Unlike her sisters Lütjens and Rommel, Mölders was preserved and is now on display as museum ship at the Deutsches Marinemuseum at Wilhelmshaven, although she was never stationed in Wilhelmshaven during her active career.


Rommel was laid down on 22 August 1967 by Bath Iron Works of Bath, Maine with the hull number DDG-30. She was launched on 1 February 1969, and christened Rommel by Lucie Maria Rommel, widow of Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel. The vessel was commissioned on 2 May 1970, and was added to the 1. Zerstörergeschwader (first destroyer squadron), based in Kiel. She operated for 28 years.

On 30 September 1998, Rommel was decommissioned. The operating licence for the boilers had expired and it was not considered efficient to refit her. She was towed to Wilhelmshaven to be cannibalised for spare parts to support her two sister ships, Lütjens and Mölders. These two vessels continued to serve for five more years. In 2004 the hull of Rommel was scrapped in Turkey.
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 19736
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by John Q. Public » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:23 am

I did a little reading. You want controversy? How about the USS Dixon, named after a Confederate submarine commander who sank a US Navy ship?

http://news.usni.org/2013/04/23/twenty- ... troversies
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Parrotpaul
Posts: 33550
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:14 pm

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Parrotpaul » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:37 am

More reading...I knew the three German war heroes were not Nazis, but I did not know the West German Parliament in 1998 withdrew any honors Molders received because of his involvement with the German air strike on the Spanish town of Guernica...made famous by the Picasso piece with the same name.

Mölders' career and legacy offer an example of the challenges posed in placing the heroism of the German armed forces in the post-war cultural, political and social setting. In 1998, on the occasion of the 61st anniversary of the bombing of the Spanish town of Guernica during the Spanish Civil War, the German Parliament decided that members of the Condor Legion, such as Mölders, should "no longer be honoured".[68][70] In 2005, the German Ministry of Defence (Bundesministerium der Verteidigung) decided to remove the name "Mölders" from the JG 74. The decision was confirmed on 11 March 2005 by the Federal Minister of Defence Peter Struck, and at 10:00, the flags and cuff titles were removed

Source...Wikipedia.
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

MDDad
Posts: 12125
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by MDDad » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:15 am

So now we know that American warships have been named after Confederate naval commanders, German sailors, British prime ministers and run-of-the-mill politicians. As bizarre as those christenings might seem, perhaps the least aptly named American war vessel of all time was a guided missile frigate of the 1960's, 70's and 80's named the U.S.S. Brooke.

Reconquista Primero
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:41 am

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Reconquista Primero » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:21 am

MDDAD:
Ouch! Well played, sir.
Worst choices for president in my 35 + years of voting.

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 19736
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by John Q. Public » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:53 am

You can even build your own! Or get the official USS Brooke wedding dress or ghost outfit or whatever the hell it is.
Monogram 6855 Brooke.JPG
uss_brooke_wrap_blanket.jpg
uss_brooke_wrap_blanket.jpg (14.65 KiB) Viewed 253 times
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Parrotpaul
Posts: 33550
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:14 pm

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Parrotpaul » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:03 am

Following decommissioning in 1988, she was transferred to Pakistan on 1 February 1989. Renamed Khaibar, she was returned to the United States on 14 November 1993 and sold for scrap on 29 March 1994.

As of 2005, no other ship in the United States Navy has been named Brooke


Source...Wikipedia
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 24547
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Wabash » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:16 am

I believe the bottom line is that Brooke has no legitimate argument. She just wants brown people to know their place. Which isn't on ships names.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 19736
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by John Q. Public » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:42 am

Parrotpaul wrote:Following decommissioning in 1988, she was transferred to Pakistan on 1 February 1989. Renamed Khaibar, she was returned to the United States on 14 November 1993 and sold for scrap on 29 March 1994.
Her fate could have been worse, ya know. :mex:
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Brooke
Posts: 21580
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:51 am

Re: Navy honors naturalized Mexican vet

Post by Brooke » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:36 pm

It doesn't take much to get you guys riled up. BTW, my real name is not Brooke. :roll:
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

Post Reply