Cadet Carson?

broman
Posts: 3833
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:52 am

Cadet Carson?

Post by broman » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:00 pm

What did the good ole Dr. Ben actually claim?

Ben Carson, in an agitated press conference Friday night, denied that he had ever claimed receiving a "full scholarship" from West Point.

“I never said that I received a full scholarship. Nowhere did I say that,” Carson said. “POLITICO as you know, told a bold-faced lie.”


In his 1996 autobiography “Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story,” Carson wrote on page 67 that after a dinner with a prominent U.S. general he was "offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

“More exciting to me, General William Westmoreland (very prominent in the Viet Nam war) attended with an impressive entourage. Afterward, Sgt. Hunt” — his high school ROTC director — “introduced me to General Westmoreland, and I had dinner with him and the Congressional Medal winners. Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”


“I had a goal of achieving the office of city executive officer [in JROTC]. Well, no one had ever done that in that amount of time … Long story short, it worked, I did it,” Carson said. “I was offered full scholarship to West Point, got to meet General Westmoreland, go to Congressional Medal dinners, but decided really my pathway would be medicine.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/b ... z3qlouy3QS

A guy on MSNBC said it best, his supporters see wiggle room in his statement. I can agree with that.

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 24547
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Wabash » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:52 pm

I see the wiggle room as well. However, the USMA never offered him anything. Nor could they since he never applied for a nomination.

Technically it's not true.

Given the criticism conservatives have directed towards liberals for any minute detail in their background this is yet another example of their double standard.

What's sad is that someone as accomplished as Carson feels the need to embelish his already outstanding record. I still wouldn't vote for him but I respect his achievements.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 19736
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by John Q. Public » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:04 am

Too early in the season for this to be the work of liberals. More likely one of Trump's "researchers."

He's much too smart to think that whatever Westmoreland might have told him amounted to a scholarship offer or that nobody would have spotted the "exaggeration." I get the feeling it might be a case of his not proofreading "his" book.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 24547
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Wabash » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:49 am

There is video of him making that claim. There is also doubt of whether or not he met Westmoreland at the time he claims.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 18155
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Fordama » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:54 am

Carson lives in a fantasy world. He dreams up fantasies, thinks about them over and over again until they become realities in his head. This is just one case. How does one get a "scholarship" to a school with no tuition?

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-d ... oint/?_r=0

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
Troglodyte
Posts: 16607
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:33 pm

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Troglodyte » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:21 am

There is no scholarship to West Point or any military academy.. It is free, but you need a recommendation from a politician. In this case, a word from General Westmoreland would do nicely.. If it was serious, or not, is another question.. If Carson was determined to become a doctor, West Point wouldn't do him any good and a six year commitment after would seriously slow him down in that regard..
As usual, the mud slingers and story tellers are out in full force. At least Carson wasn't getting shot at in Sarajevo, or was being named after mountain climbers years after her birth..
I don't suffer from any mental illnesses.. I enjoy them..

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 24547
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Wabash » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:38 am

Troglodyte wrote: At least Carson wasn't getting shot at in Sarajevo, or was being named after mountain climbers years after her birth..
Good point Trog. The question now is why conservatives aren't holding Carson to the same level of scrutiny as they did with Hillary and her comments.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

MDDad
Posts: 12125
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by MDDad » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:34 am

Regarding Carson's lie about getting a West Point scholarship, there are many who believe that "What difference, at this point, does it make?" is an appropriate response when someone is caught in an embarrassing screw-up. Maybe he should use it.

broman
Posts: 3833
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:52 am

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by broman » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:38 am

"What difference, at this point, does it make?" It depends on the question.

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 24547
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Wabash » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:13 am

Remind us how conservatives reacted to that remark when it was used by Clinton. Another soundbite taken out of context.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

afan95
Posts: 1738
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:43 pm

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by afan95 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:24 am

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" PRESIDENT Obama

A SITTING PRESIDENT, not a presidential candidate LIED, over and over again to the American people.

So as Wabash would say, nothing to see here.
It's my Board and I will censor you when I feel like it JQP

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 24547
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Wabash » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:28 am

The topic is Carson's exaggerations of his record. That has been established.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

User avatar
Brooke
Posts: 21580
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:51 am

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Brooke » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:56 pm

Wabash: That has been established.
No, it hasn't. Politico had to walk back their lies. Carson didn't say he was offered a full scholarship to Westpoint. Which makes sense considering there is no such thing.

Isn't it interesting that the liberal media is trying to take down Carson when they did no vetting of Obama at all?
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 24547
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am
Has thanked: 2 times

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Wabash » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:37 pm

In his book Gifted Hands he states he was offered a scholarship to West Point. He made the same statement to Charlie Rose last month. West Point has stated that he was never offered any type of admission since he never applied. My neighbor's daughter was appointed to the USNA. She had to apply directly to the academy and also to a nominating authority. I believe she went through her local congressional representative. It was a very rigorous process. While Carson can claim he was encouraged to apply by military officials they cannot offer any type of admission. That is done by the academy.

The vetting of Obama is not the topic. Please try to focus.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

broman
Posts: 3833
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:52 am

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by broman » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:29 pm

Brooke wrote:
Wabash: That has been established.
No, it hasn't. Politico had to walk back their lies. Carson didn't say he was offered a full scholarship to Westpoint. Which makes sense considering there is no such thing.

Isn't it interesting that the liberal media is trying to take down Carson when they did no vetting of Obama at all?
In his 1996 autobiography “Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story,” Carson wrote on page 67 that after a dinner with a prominent U.S. general he was "offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

“More exciting to me, General William Westmoreland (very prominent in the Viet Nam war) attended with an impressive entourage. Afterward, Sgt. Hunt” — his high school ROTC director — “introduced me to General Westmoreland, and I had dinner with him and the Congressional Medal winners. Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”

User avatar
Brooke
Posts: 21580
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:51 am

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Brooke » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:42 pm

Nor is it about your neighbor's daughter. Please focus. :roll:
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 19736
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by John Q. Public » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:03 pm

What could Politico have said that's beyond what Carson himself said? Did they say he claimed to have gotten two scholarships or something? :eh?:
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Brooke
Posts: 21580
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:51 am

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Brooke » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:05 pm

The story began with Politico, which ran with the audacious headline, “Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship.” Even I was taken in by the headline – after all, that’s a pretty bold claim!
Politico began thusly:

Ben Carson’s campaign on Friday admitted, in a response to an inquiry from POLITICO, that a central point in his inspirational personal story was fabricated: his application and acceptance into the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.
The key word here is “fabricated.” Did the Carson campaign admit any such thing? Absolutely not. The facts reported by Politico don’t even support this interpretation of the Carson campaign’s response. According to Politico, Carson said in his 1992 memoir Gifted Hands that he was offered a “full scholarship” to West Point after dining with General William Westmoreland in 1969. Here’s the relevant passage from Carson’s autobiography:

At the end of my twelfth grade I marched at the head of the Memorial Day parade. I felt so proud, my chest bursting with ribbons and braids of every kind. To make it more wonderful, We had important visitors that day. Two soldiers who had won the Congressional Medal of Honor in Viet Nam were present. More exciting to me, General William Westmoreland (very prominent in the Viet Nam war) attended with an impressive entourage. Afterward, Sgt. Hunt introduced me to General Westmoreland, and I had dinner with him and the Congressional Medal winners. Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point. I didn’t refuse the scholarship outright, but I let them know that a military career wasn’t where I saw myself going.
That’s the entire relevant portion of Carson’s account. He reiterated that account last month in an interview with Charlie Rose, when he said, “I was offered a full scholarship at West Point, got to meet General Westmoreland and go to Congressional Medal of Honor dinners. But decided really my pathway would be medicine.”
http://www.dailywire.com/news/960/no-be ... en-shapiro
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

broman
Posts: 3833
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:52 am

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by broman » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:11 pm

Wait a second. Brooke, you stated that Carson didn't say he was offered a full scholarship to WestPoint. Then you highlight a portion of an article in which Carson says ,"Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point" :shrug:

User avatar
Brooke
Posts: 21580
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:51 am

Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Brooke » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:12 pm

There is more deception on the part of Politico.
They reported one additional piece of information that seems to conflict with Carson’s story: Carson never applied to West Point, and was never extended admission.

But Carson never said he applied. He said he was extended a full scholarship offer. What’s more, West Point doesn’t offer scholarships: all admission is free contingent on serving in the military afterwards. It thus seems probable that Westmoreland or another military figure tried to recruit Carson, telling him that he wouldn’t have to pay for his education – and that Carson read that as a “full scholarship,” and never applied.

In fact, that’s exactly what Carson’s campaign manager said to Politico in an email:

Dr. Carson was the top ROTC student in the City of Detroit. In that role he was invited to meet General Westmoreland. He believes it was at a banquet. He can’t remember with specificity their brief conversation but it centered around Dr. Carson’s performance as ROTC City Executive Officer. He was introduced to folks from West Point by his ROTC Supervisors. They told him they could help him get an appointment based on his grades and performance in ROTC. He considered it but in the end did not seek admission.
Who in their right mind uses a welcome sign to mean people who would come into their home uninvited, paid by their neighbors who are using their illegal labor, overrun the neighborhood, and refuse to leave?

Locked