Cadet Carson?

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Troglodyte
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Troglodyte » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:12 pm

Wabash wrote; "By who? Edo can make that offer? A general can't. The president can't. Not can any congressional representative. Your claim is as incorrect as Carson's. "

Read em and weep, Wabash.... Beside the basic criteria a nomination is very helpful. Those without a nomination get placed in the second tier for candidates.. Carson could have been offered a nomination before he was to apply.. Happens all the time..
After determining that you meet the basic requirements to become a cadet, you should begin seeking nominations. In order to be considered for admission at West Point, you need to be nominated. There are two types of nominations, the Congressional Nomination and the Service-Connected Nomination. LINK

Congressional Nominations - Who Can Nominate?
•The Vice President
•U.S. Senators
•U.S. Representatives
•Delegates to the House of Representatives from Washington, D.C., the Mariana Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Virgin Islands
•The Governor of Puerto Rico
•The Resident Commissioner of Puerto Rico
•The Secretary of the Army

Service-Connected Nominations - Who Can Apply?
•Sons and Daughters of "career military personnel" (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard)
•Regular Army and Reserve Components (Army, Army Reserve, and Army National Guard)
To request a nomination under this category, submit your commander's endorsement, which is included in your application. This category is for sons and daughters of deceased or 100% disabled Armed Forces veterans whose death or disability was determined by the Veterans' Administration to be service-connected, and for sons and daughters of military personnel or federally employed civilians who are in a missing or captured status.
•Sons and Daughters of Persons Awarded the Medal of Honor
Sons and daughters of Medal of Honor winners are eligible under this category.
◦Include a brief statement of the date and circumstances of the award of the Medal of Honor, if applicable.
•Army Junior and Senior ROTC Programs and Honor ROTC Units of Other Services
Applicants currently enrolled in an Army Junior or Senior Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program or an ROTC program from another branch of service that has been designated as an Honor Unit with Distinction are eligible for a nomination in this category. A request for a ROTC Nomination should be made through your Professor of Military Science or Senior Instructor who must fill out and submit a Request for ROTC Nomination (Form 5-497) to the Director of Admissions, U.S. Military Academy.
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Wabash » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:15 pm

In order to be considered for admission at West Point, you need to be nominated. There are two types of nominations, the Congressional Nomination and the Service-Connected Nomination.


This point has been addressed numerous times.

He never applied for a nomination so he was never offered anything. No nomination, no appointment, no scholarship.
Last edited by Wabash on Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Troglodyte » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:19 pm

](*,) Okay, Wabash... We'll take your word over that of West Point itself.... :lol: :foilhat:
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Wabash » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:31 pm

Trog, I agree with West Point. I quoted the relevant part that you seem to have either overlooked or don't understand.

Zebra gave a great example of an individual who met the basic requirements but was rejected. I'm betting many individuals qualify without being admitted or offered an appointment. That would be no different than any other university. The difference with the three larger service academies is that one needs a nomination to be appointed and offered the scholarship. The USMA has an acceptance rate of about 9%. I doubt that all of the other 91% not selected have failed to meet the basic requirements.
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by not4u13 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:23 am

Sorry JQP. Just can't see your perspective on this. What we are talking about here is not the absolute meaning of an "offer of acceptance to WestPoint". What Carson claims is that the General or someone from that group of military leaders he met with offered him a full scholarship. It doesn't really matter whether or not they had the authority to do so. If they said it (and it seems by Zebra's account there is a pattern of behavior by recruiters to make such statements) why would Carson even question it? To him, it meant an offer to attend Westpoint. To many kids that age, that's exactly what it feels like, no matter what the actual procedure is.

We're discussing Carson's credibility here, not the specifics of any admissions process.

Of course Carson has many other issues in my book with respect to his belief system, but it doesn't appear in this case that he lied about Westpoint and his election team didn't admit to a lie either. As far as the news story goes, it is all full of holes. As far as Carson goes, he should go hide in one of those grain storage structures in the Sahara. HIs chances of winning the nomination are slim to none.
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Troglodyte » Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:56 pm

Damn, I get offers every day from Colleges, Nigerian princes, Honda dealers, Obamacare, NY Times, people wanting to loan me money, and realators wanting to sell my house... I've never applied for any of them, I'm not even interested in knowing if I qualified, but I suppose I could add all of them on my resume if I thought it would do me any good... Yeah, I even got an offer to join Carson's campaign... Trump's too.. Ha Ha..
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Brooke » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:40 pm

This should clear this up once and for all, even though I have posted this information before.


The Politico story claimed that Carson had “fabricated” his “application and acceptance” into the U.S. Military Academy. [Hours after the initial publication Friday, Politico updated its story to remove the claim that Carson had fabricated his application and acceptance into West Point.]
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Brooke » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:44 pm

In addition:

“The Politico story is an outright lie,” Watts wrote in a statement. “Dr. Carson as the leading ROTC student in Detroit was told by his commanders that he could get an Appointment at the academy. He never said he was admitted or even applied.”
http://time.com/4103012/ben-carson-west-point/
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Brooke » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:52 pm

Here is rest of it. Carson was the top ROTC student at the time therefore:
Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson has long maintained that he was “offered a full scholarship to West Point,” while a high school student in Detroit. His campaign said on Friday that the offer was made informally by his high school ROTC leader, and that he never applied to attend the military school.

“He was introduced to folks from West Point by his ROTC Supervisors,” Doug Watts, Carson’s communications director said in a statement. “They told him they could help him get an appointment based on his grades and performance in ROTC. He considered it but in the end did not seek admission.”
Below in quotes is Carson's statement from the book. I see nothing wrong with it. Fifty years later he viewed it as a full scholarship, which is an acceptable way to remember it because it is a full scholarship after all. (This deviates from one of my earlier posts on this thread, my thinking evolved with more information).
The campaign statement was made in response to a story by Politico scrutinizing past statements by Carson. In his autobiography, Gifted Hands, Carson writes that he as introduced “to General Westmoreland, and I had dinner with him and the Congressional Medal winners. Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point.”
http://time.com/4103012/ben-carson-west-point/
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Reconquista Primero » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:56 pm

Yet another lie from Carson. There is no such thing as a "Congressional Medal."
Seriously, folks, haven't we milked this steer long enough? Carson has given us other gems that can easily be challenged. This one is a whole lot of nothing.
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Wabash » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:17 pm

As was pointed out. It's a moot point. Carson isn't going to be elected president this time around. Maybe never.
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Brooke » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:45 pm

Steers are castrated male cattle and cannot be milked.

http://congressionalaward.org/program/how-it-works/
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Reconquista Primero » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:59 pm

Brooke: Re steers-uh, that's the whole point. :roll:
And there is no such thing as the Congressional Medal. I think the accuracy challenged candidate meant the Medal of Honor winners as there is no Congressional Medal of Honor.
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Wabash » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:25 pm

One is awarded the Medal of Honor. I doubt any of the recipients thought it was a contest.
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Brooke » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:03 pm

RP: Brooke: Re steers-uh, that's the whole point. :roll:
Uh huh, I'll bet you didn't. :roll:

noun: Congressional Medal of Honor

the highest US military decoration, awarded by Congress to a member of the armed forces for gallantry and bravery in combat at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Congres ... gws_rd=ssl
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Reconquista Primero » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:11 pm

Brooke: Please apply a little brain power as to the steers comment. The whole thread has been a circle jerk of nothingness. My comment about having milked the steer is directed towards the waste of bandwidth. To make that comment, I'd have to know what a steer is.
The Medal of Honor's correct title is the Medal of Honor, your google search notwithstanding. If you take this further, you are participating in the circle jerk. Do you really want to do that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Brooke » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:17 pm

Screen Shot 2015-11-10 at 4.16.40 PM.png
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Reconquista Primero » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:21 pm

The "society" can call itself whatever it wants. The legal title is "Medal of Honor." It is awarded by the president in the name of congress, but the title is "Medal of Honor."
Welcome to the circle jerk. :roll:
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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by MDDad » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:54 pm

RP, now you’re just jumping on the Wabash hair-splitting ass wagon. Yes, the official title is Medal of Honor. But it has been popularly called the Congressional Medal of Honor for 150 years. It’s even called such in the United States Code, e.g. 18 U.S.C. § 704 (c):

(c)Enhanced Penalty for Offenses Involving Congressional Medal of Honor.—
(1)In general.—
If a decoration or medal involved in an offense under subsection (a) is a Congressional Medal of Honor, in lieu of the punishment provided in that subsection, the offender shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(2)Congressional medal of honor defined.—In this subsection, the term “Congressional Medal of Honor” means—
(A) a medal of honor awarded under section 3741, 6241, or 8741 of title 10or section 491 of title 14;
(B) a duplicate medal of honor issued under section 3754, 6256, or 8754 of title 10or section 504 of title 14; or
(C) a replacement of a medal of honor provided under section 3747, 6253, or 8747 of title 10or section 501 of title 14.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/704

So now who’s wasting circle jerk bandwidth arguing over trivia?

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Re: Cadet Carson?

Post by Reconquista Primero » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:58 pm

MDDad: We are all. We've been infected by this thread. :D
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