49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

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Omar Bongo
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:54 pm

Bick wrote:People supporting Kaepernick protest
I take it you mean some people supporting the Kaepernick protest are saying that a few police are murderers? Probably. There are people on both sides using extreme rhetoric to make a point, but I don't think anyone is saying it's "okay", though...maybe a better term might be 2nd degree murderers, or manslaughterers?

He said he was not going to stand for a COUNTRY that oppresses blacks

I'm assuming you're talking about Kaepernick? The exact quote was "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color"

You're taking exception to what you see as an over-generalization? Okay, I can see that. People on both sides should indeed be more exact with their words so we don't lose sight of the problem waste time arguing about semantics. Although some could argue that recent actions like lack of prosecutions for civil rights violations or the gutting of the Voting Rights Act would tend to indicate there is complicity at the Federal level as well...

My thoughts are very different from the protesters. I believe the primary problem is the crime in the communities that results in the profiling needed to police it

Very different indeed. Many of them would say that it's the profiling itself that is the problem.

What institutionalized attitude do they want changed? What practice(s) do they want changed?

I don't think That's a secret, a little googling should answer your questions...

Someone being disrespectful doesn't cheapen anyone / anything but the person who is being disrespectful

Well, I think playing the Anthem at ballgames or when a TV station goes off the air (showing my age) cheapens it, but that's just me
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Bick » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:43 am

OB - appreciate the thoughtful response.

We'll agree to disagree this is a semantics issue, or an over-generalization. Same with playing it at ballgames or other public venues somehow cheapens it.

I still can't figure out what's wanted on this institutionalized attitude. Seems the feeling is something else is owed besides current laws forbidding discrimination on basis of race, etc. Am mostly reading a complaint for more opportunity. Is that accurate?

And no clue how NOT to profile in an area where the different ethnic groups are committing crimes in the area. If the concern of the community is they're not good with another race is policing them, hire more of the predominate race.

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Re: What's your thinking on profiling Muslims?

Post by Omar Bongo » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:05 pm

...the issue Kaepernick has is with profiling blacks per OB if I'm understanding correctly...

I am loathe to speak for Kaepernick, but I wouldn't say it's solely about profiling. Here's what Kaepernick himself said:

...People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up, as far as giving freedom and justice, liberty to everybody. That’s something that’s not happening...

Here are some statistics to provide context:

1. Nearly 1 in 3 black people killed by police in 2015 were identified as unarmed, though the actual number is likely higher due to underreporting

2. 37% of unarmed people killed by police in 2015 were black, despite black people being only 13% of the U.S. population

3. Unarmed black people were killed at 5x the rate of unarmed whites in 2015

4. Only 2 of the 102 cases in 2015 where an unarmed black person was killed by police resulted in convictions of officers involved
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Re: What's your thinking on profiling Muslims?

Post by Bick » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:32 am

OB - how about some stats showing the % of violent crimes committed by blacks, as well as the violent crime rate in the vicinity they were shot? Or how many unarmed blacks have been killed in OC so far this century?

JQP - white collar suspects ARE profiled. Maybe they aren't shot because the crimes are non-violent? Are you really not going to be concerned if you're in a shopping mall with your family and an Arab looking guy with a backpack is walking towards you?

You mentioned serial criminals. Middle aged, over-weight white guys weren't profiled when that serial rapist was on the prowl in OC years ago?

The notion that police shouldn't profile is just ludicrous. If those groups in crime-ridden communities don't think the crime itself is the main problem, and want different policing there, then change it. Elect a mayor, city council, DA etc that will pass ordinances that do exactly what you want. Hire an all-black police force and have them keep their single bullet in their pocket ala Barney Fife. Problem solved.

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:27 pm

And here we are with two more unarmed African American men shot to death. Yet we are supposed to believe the police did nothing wrong.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Omar Bongo » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:49 pm

OB - how about some stats showing the % of violent crimes committed by blacks, as well as the violent crime rate in the vicinity they were shot?

What number makes it acceptable to treat all members of one ethnicity different than others?

Or how many unarmed blacks have been killed in OC so far this century?

How many is too many?

Are you really not going to be concerned if you're in a shopping mall with your family and an Arab looking guy with a backpack is walking towards you?

Depends on the backpack

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:01 am

Colin Kaepernick is receiving death threats...WTF? American nationalism is an enemy in itself.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by MDDad » Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:28 am

Parrotpaul wrote:American nationalism is an enemy in itself.
Ah, finally, there we have it. Question the appropriateness of the American flag -- how and where it should be displayed. Question the appropriateness of the pledge of allegiance -- both its content and who should recite it. Question the appropriateness of the national anthem -- where it should be played and peoples' responses to it. Question the value of American nationalism itself. Maybe if we Americans just stop being "nationalists", the rest of the world will follow our lead, right?

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It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too...
You may say I'm a dreamer..."

Yep.

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:05 am

Maybe American jingoism might have been a better term.

p.s. Before you call us commies, keep in mind that Parrotpaul and I are likely the only people in this thread who actually wore the uniform.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by MDDad » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:20 am

I didn't call anyone a commie, and as far as I know, nobody here is one. Just as none of us on the other side is a cross between a mullet-headed Bubba and a neo-Nazi. I still know the difference between a Leninist and a Lennonist.

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:35 am

marx lennon.JPG
Just saying that questioning things doesn't make you unpatriotic.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by MDDad » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:02 am

I agree, but saying "American nationalism is an enemy in itself" is not questioning. It's a condemnation.

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Reconquista Primero » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:58 am

I don't think that "nationalism" is bad in and of itself. It is when a person goes nuts when somebody doesn't conform to what that person believes everybody must do to satisfy that person's standard that is a problem.
For instance: I believe that it is very patriotic when a person thinks something is wrong with the ways things are and protests it. It means that person wants and expects something better of his country. We can all dicker over the issue being protested, but I don't think it makes a person less patriotic to protest.
I think there are four things somebody should do to be a good citizen: Vote, pay taxes, serve in whatever capacity you can (military or national service) when the country needs it and answer for jury duty. These can all be done without an excessive preening for public consumption of "how I love my country." The Pledge of Allegiance, the National Anthony, lapel pins, etc, are all show to me. I don't say the Pledge of Allegiance because loyalty oaths are creepy to me. I don't sing the National Anthem because nobody (even me) wants to hear me sing as well as not thinking it necessary and I don't wear a lapel pin because I'm not worried about impressing others with my patriotism.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:56 pm

:yeahthat:

I think there are four things somebody should do to be a good citizen: Vote, pay taxes, serve in whatever capacity you can (military or national service) when the country needs it and answer for jury duty. These can all be done without an excessive preening for public consumption of "how I love my country." The Pledge of Allegiance, the National Anthony, lapel pins, etc, are all show to me. I don't say the Pledge of Allegiance because loyalty oaths are creepy to me
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:04 am

Looks to me as if Kaepernick's cause is gaining some traction.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by sbayhills » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:28 am

Are you talking about the rioting in N.C. based on another lie?

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:40 am

I don't understand your question.

Have you watched ESPN at all lately?
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:01 pm

Goodness, even cheerleaders now...when will it end??? Trump save us!

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by ocfootballfan » Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:27 pm

What's going on with these cop/un-armed black shootings? Are the cops fearful and shooting first and asking questions later? I wouldn't want to be a cop or black. Don't know what the answer is to this societal problem. Is it worse now than it was back in the 60's or just more covered by the media.

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:39 pm

This one floored me...

Police Officer Fired For Not Shooting Man Who Had Unloaded Gun

Then-Weirton police officer Stephen Mader was let go after a May 6 incident in which he said he tried to talk Ronald D. “R.J.” Williams Jr. out of harming himself.

“I thought I was going to be able to talk to him and de-escalate it,” Mader, an ex-Marine, told The Post-Gazette. “I knew it was suicide-by-cop.”

Mader said even though he didn’t know Williams Jr.’s gun was unloaded at the time, the man had the gun at his side and was not pointing it at the officer. He also knew that he had been called to the scene because of a domestic disturbance and Williams Jr. had only threatened to hurt himself.

“I told him, ‘Put down the gun,’ and he’s like, ‘Just shoot me.’ And I told him, ‘I’m not going to shoot you brother,’” Mader said.

Eventually, two other officers arrived and one of them shot and killed Williams Jr., hitting him in the back of the head, just behind his right ear, The Post-Gazette reported.

The shooting was deemed justified, but Mader was terminated because he “failed to eliminate a threat,” according to his June 6 termination letter.

Mader is now working toward getting a commercial license to drive trucks."


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/13/po ... d-gun.html

Here's a cop who used his head instead of his gun, and this is the thanks he gets... ](*,)

Ya think that just maybe part of the problem is the default police response of summary execution as a conflict resolution strategy?
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