49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

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Wabash
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:26 pm

Fordama wrote:and of course the usual "America, love it or leave it" crap.
That group typically is the first when it comes to criticizing America and leaders they don't like. Their criticism of Kapernick is a prime example of situational patriotism. Outspoken conservatives are admired for speaking out. Forthright liberals, not so much.

I'm especially amused at those who say he is critical of the country that has given him so much.

Having lived near several pro athletes, I can attest to the fact they weren't given anything.

They worked harder than anyone I know to achieve that level.
Last edited by Wabash on Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:32 pm

Luca wrote:But "they should do away with it" because it annoys you. And you graciously grant me the right to disagree. I'm greatly in your debt..............................Luca
Were you fussy as a child? :mrgreen:
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Luca » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:34 pm

Fordama
Actually, Luca, there has been a lot of crap on the internet saying he should be fined or cut, and of course the usual "America, love it or leave it" crap.
That is true, and there are also a lot of people on the Internet and on the sports pages who support the guy.

Again the question I have addressed is where and when it's appropriate to ventilate your particular political perspective. As a teacher, I assume you wouldn't feel yourself entitled to spend a series of mathematics classes dedicated to your righteous anger regarding the Armenian genocide, no matter how strongly you feel about it. Obviously you're entitled to feel that way but not on the company's time. You are reasonably expected to cooperate with your school and your fellow teachers during school hours, etc.

This guy is sowing dissension on his team and harming the public appeal of his football team. That is being an opinionated and entitled narcissist. Exactly what his particular issue is isn't the dispute. It's his timing and his behavior...........................Luca

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:44 pm

Luca wrote:This guy is sowing dissension on his team and harming the public appeal of his football team. That is being an opinionated and entitled narcissist. Exactly what his particular issue is isn't the dispute. It's his timing and his behavior...........................Luca
I remember hearing the same thing about numerous athletes during the 60's. Lew Alcindor, Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown amongst many others. Hmmmm....what do they all have in common? And partially in common with Kaepernick.......Wabash
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:46 pm

He plans to do it again this week. If the cameras never show it, and if the media ignore it...it might not have the negative impact you claim it will have. It certainly would lose legs...if you will...if the media stays away.

Your blood pressure is peaking over the event...meh. Black athletes made a gesture in the 68 Mexico Olympics (69?), Muhammad Ali got professionally crucified for his protest, and Kaepernick decides to sit out a NA, and America comes apart...another black athlete trying to make a point...the Olympians were vilified, but now they are seen as being OK....same with Ali...died a hero to many...stood up for what he believed and paid the price...Kaepernick will also pay the price, but maybe all this publicity and hoopla surrounding his gesture will be positive.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:54 pm

Parrotpaul wrote:the Olympians were vilified, but now they are seen as being OK....same with Ali...died a hero to many...stood up for what he believed and paid the price...Kaepernick will also pay the price, but maybe all this publicity and hoopla surrounding his gesture will be positive.
Great example. Ali refused to be inducted and took the consequences of his actions. I remember him saying, "No Viet Cong ever called me n*****."

He lost several prime years of his career.

Kaepernick seems willing to accept the consequences of his actions. I respect that.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Luca » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:58 pm

You're projecting again, Paul. I think the whole episode is Kardashian esque and semi-comical involving a self-centered celebrity.

You're trying to portray this as some sort of historical event by drawing parallels where they don't exist. Of course it's going to blow over and all that is going to result is that he will have been a distraction for his team as the season begins. The guy has no symbolic significance and will be no historic footnote.

It's odd that you see him as following some noble tradition when he's merely spending his 15 minutes following in the footsteps of Paris Hilton.................................Luca

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:04 pm

Luca wrote:ou're projecting again, Paul. I think the whole episode is Kardashian esque and semi-comical involving a self-centered celebrity.
Did he tell you that in seance?

I remember many saying the same thing about John Carlos, Tommie Smith, Muhammad Ali et al.

Guess what? Turns out they actually believed in their convictions.......Wabash
Last edited by Wabash on Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Omar Bongo » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:08 pm

Luca, your feelings about him as a person seem quite visceral...think maybe you're overreacting a bit?
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:16 pm

You're trying to portray this as some sort of historical event by drawing parallels where they don't exist.

That's not my portrayal at all. Kaepernick is making a statement, and he claims it is his way of showing his dissatisfaction with the country. Some support him, some don't, but in the end...whenever that may be, Kaepernick will pay the price for doing what he is doing.

But parallels may very well exist twenty years from now.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Luca » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:18 pm

Omar, you're right that I don't like the guy but I don't believe it's an overreaction. He is putting himself before his team because he thinks his personal views are more important. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the empty Marlon Brando type gestures.......................Luca

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:33 pm

He should know his place. Right? .......Wabash
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:27 pm

Luca wrote:This guy is sowing dissension on his team and harming the public appeal of his football team.
Dissension would be up to the guys on the team but harming the team's appeal is yet to be seen. It sounds like there's an awful lot of people agreeing with him.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:36 pm

Parrotpaul wrote:Playing the anthem before sporting events to me is annoying.
It is an odd - and oddly American - tradition. Getting the pop star du jour to torture it is even worse.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Omar Bongo » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:58 pm

Luca wrote:I don't have a lot of sympathy for the empty Marlon Brando type gestures...
Hmmm...disdain for yet another protest calling attention to the systemized mistreatment of racial minorities...I'm seeing a pattern here :-k
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Luca » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:12 pm

So am I...............Luca

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:06 am

I like the fact that Kaepernick has all the faux patriots wound up. That in itself was worth it.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by sbayhills » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:56 am

Wabash wrote:He should know his place. Right? .......Wabash
Omar Bongo wrote:Hmmm...disdain for yet another protest calling attention to the systemized mistreatment of racial minorities...I'm seeing a pattern here
Yes Luca, so am I. Pretty disgusting.

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:55 am

Luca wrote:He's a strange guy. Somebody commented that he sounds like that guy who believes everything he reads on the Internet.
Luca wrote:You're trying to portray this as some sort of historical event by drawing parallels where they don't exist. Of course it's going to blow over and all that is going to result is that he will have been a distraction for his team as the season begins. The guy has no symbolic significance and will be no historic footnote.

It's odd that you see him as following some noble tradition when he's merely spending his 15 minutes following in the footsteps of Paris Hilton......
Luca wrote: I don't have a lot of sympathy for the empty Marlon Brando type gestures.......................Luca
Yes SBH, I see a pattern as well. Pretty disgusting.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:16 am

sbayhills wrote: Yes Luca, so am I. Pretty disgusting.
What pattern do you see that is so disgusting to you?
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