49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Luca
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Luca » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:27 am

You realize, sbay, it's their version of the white flag. The topic of this thread was, until our two self-anointed social justice warriors intervened, the appropriateness of a wealthy football player staging a symbolic protest by not standing up and acknowledging the National Anthem. Is it an appropriate manner of protest, is that the venue in which to do it, should his loyalty to team outweigh his personally held beliefs, etc. etc.

This type of debate requires a bit of introspection and weighing of competing values. This is not an exercise in which our two warriors excel. This is not the zero-sum ideological battleground to which they are accustomed and with which they are most comfortable. As you know, we have two ideologically ossified reflexive white liberals: one of whom hasn't offered an original, let alone intelligent, contribution on this board since its inception and the other suffers from Dolezal Syndrome. Rather than wrestle with conflicting legitimate values and risk compromising ground in their zero-sum perspective, they attempt to turn it into a discussion on race and select their default positions.

This, then, allows them to act out their interminable fantasy of being in the vanguard of human history, fearlessly defending the oppressed and downtrodden with their tiresome slogans and mindnumbing platitudes. They selflessly force back the hordes of evil, racist hatey-haters thereby paving the way for the glorious future of (insert the chorus from The Battle Hymn of the Republic here) Truth, Justice, and the American Way (no offense intended with the use of "American")

What the hell, it's easier than thinking your way through an issue..................................Luca

(Sorry, Paul, your post came in as I was composing mine. I wasn't referring to you and I think my comments above answer your question)

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Wabash
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:12 am

The Olympics showed us the reactions the Kardashians have towards athletes and the national anthem.

Gabby Douglas stands at attention but doesn't put her hand over her chest. It's claimed that she doesn't love America.

Michael Phelps is laughing and joking with his teammates. Not a word about his level of respect.


Hmm....what's the major difference?

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John Q. Public
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:00 am

Luca wrote:The topic of this thread was... the appropriateness of a wealthy football player staging a symbolic protest by not standing up and acknowledging the National Anthem. Is it an appropriate manner of protest, is that the venue in which to do it, should his loyalty to team outweigh his personally held beliefs, etc. etc.
Who would you prefer do it and where? Seems like a number of people already have in a number of places and your reaction was pretty much the same.

And what does Kaepernick's action have to do with loyalty to his team? Seems like you're stretching there.

And could you please stick to the topic rather than talking about the people discussing it? Seems like you've complained about people who do that, too.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:11 am

Luca wrote: Is it an appropriate manner of protest, is that the venue in which to do it, should his loyalty to team outweigh his personally held beliefs, etc. etc.
Boom, there you have it. Somehow we are to believe his actions during the playing of the national anthem are indicative of his level of commitment to his team and his talent.

Yet we are led to believe those whose opinions differ from yours are not as informed..............Wabash
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Luca » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:26 am

John Q. Public wrote:Who would you prefer do it and where? Seems like a number of people already have in a number of places and your reaction was pretty much the same..
That's a rhetorical question, JQ. I wouldn't know how to answer it. I'm not sure what "number of people" or reactions you're referring to so perhaps you could expound.
John Q. Public wrote:What does Kaepernick's action have to do with loyalty to his team? Seems like you're stretching there..
Not at all. We often how controversy detracts from a team's focus. That's why coaches and owners are unhappy with players who get into off-season legal problems, stage PR campaigns during holdouts, go public with their displeasure over playing time, make bizarre comments that go viral, get suspended for anabolic's, etc. etc.. Activities that become highly publicized and detract from a team's focus on winning games – if done deliberately – are disloyal to your team and employer. There are 163 hours per week during the season not spent on a football field and the entire off-season to exercise your First Amendment rights. This guy feels his own beliefs trump his other responsibilities and that is my objection. I have no particular interest in how he feels about political issues
John Q. Public wrote:And could you please stick to the topic rather than talking about the people discussing it? Seems like you've complained about people who do that, too.
Had you followed the trend of this thread, JQ, you would have seen that both Omar and the board intellectual turned the discussion from one regarding whether such gametime displays – for whatever reason – are appropriate to an implication that my opposition to the guy is motivated by racial animus. You don't have a problem with that. You don't seem to have had a problem with the board intellectual trying to make it a discussion of Donald Trump, but if I respond to implications about me, well, by God that is going off topic?

In turn, could you please apply board rules equitably ?...................................Luca

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:37 am

Luca wrote:Not at all. We often how controversy detracts from a team's focus.
How do you know this to be true? Have you ever competed at this level? I have known several pro athletes during my lifetime. From football, baseball, and basketball.

They have all indicated to me that when the game starts, everything else is forgotten. It's one of the many reasons they are professionals and everyone else is not. Maybe they were the exception. If you have something that shows that to be untrue I'd love to read it.

BTW, I think you are referring to me as the board intellectual. I appreciate the compliment coming from someone who has been proven wrong so often.........Wabash
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:58 am

Luca wrote:You don't seem to have had a problem with the board intellectual trying to make it a discussion of Donald Trump, but if I respond to implications about me, well, by God that is going off topic?
I deleted two of his attempts. Did I miss some? My eyes glaze over sometimes.
Luca wrote:That's a rhetorical question, JQ. I wouldn't know how to answer it. I'm not sure what "number of people" or reactions you're referring to so perhaps you could expound.
I don't have time to do the reseach to see if you were one of the people doing it, but two examples are BLM being blamed for the lunatic who shot the cops in Dallas and for the violence in Baton Rouge, where the same heavy-handed style of policing that produced the protest also produced the violence at the protest.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:06 am

Luca wrote:This type of debate requires a bit of introspection and weighing of competing values. This is not an exercise in which our two warriors excel. This is not the zero-sum ideological battleground to which they are accustomed and with which they are most comfortable. As you know, we have two ideologically ossified reflexive white liberals: one of whom hasn't offered an original, let alone intelligent, contribution on this board since its inception and the other suffers from Dolezal Syndrome. Rather than wrestle with conflicting legitimate values and risk compromising ground in their zero-sum perspective, they attempt to turn it into a discussion on race and select their default positions.

This, then, allows them to act out their interminable fantasy of being in the vanguard of human history, fearlessly defending the oppressed and downtrodden with their tiresome slogans and mindnumbing platitudes. They selflessly force back the hordes of evil, racist hatey-haters thereby paving the way for the glorious future of (insert the chorus from The Battle Hymn of the Republic here) Truth, Justice, and the American Way (no offense intended with the use of "American")
Getting stomped again, Luca?
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Luca » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:12 am

Then I apologize for accusing you of bias. Yeah, you may have missed one but it's no matter.

I have my convictions JQ but I' m not a single-minded moron about them. I do see both sides of an issue and I don't recall that I had any comments about BLM being connected to policemen being killed in Dallas. I believe you're thinking of someone else........................Luca

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Luca » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:21 am

Parrotpaul wrote:Getting stomped again, Luca?
I know it's vital to you maintain your board lead with 33,000+ posts, Paul, but still it would be advisable to make at least an effort have a point with them. Wait until you have something to say. Otherwise we'll have to start disqualifying some of your offerings, which might diminish that commanding lead..........................Luca

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:34 am

Tell you what...you chop your verbosity and bluster by 60%, and I will make an extra-effort to make points that pass your muster...deal? :cheers:
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Luca » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:36 am

33,046........9.16/day. How's that?

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by MDDad » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:03 pm

I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t make the effort to remain current on issues like this Kaepernick protest, but from what I know about it, I come away with a few impressions.

First, I think it was an empty gesture. I’d feel differently he had said something like, “In protest of the mistreatment of the disadvantaged, and the disproportionate violence against blacks in America, I will no longer cash the paychecks I receive from my white devil oppressors.” Or

“Beginning the day after the end of the NFL season, I will donate 500 hours of my time, free of charge, to improving or correcting the conditions I am protesting.” Or

“I make $16 million a year playing a boys’ game. Effectively immediately, I will donate 50% (or 25%, or 10%) of my pay to organizations dedicated to peacefully resolving those issues.”

If he had done anything like that, I’d have thought, “Wow, I’m impressed. This guy is really sincere and clearly committed to those causes.” But he didn’t. After kneeling during the national anthem, I assume he returned to his privileged life. And the next time he buys another gold chain, or another Ferrari, from a jewelry store or car dealership owned by rich white guys, he will have lost what little moral high ground he may have had.

Second, what was his protest intended to accomplish? If he wanted to bring attention to the mistreatment of the disadvantaged or the violence against blacks, how much more attention do those subjects need? They are in the news every day. If he wanted to start a dialogue about those issues, he’s too late. They’ve been discussed by our best and brightest for decades. The only dialogue his protest has started (as evidenced by this thread) is on the appropriateness of the national anthem, on the nature of patriotism, and on whether or not Colin Kaepernick is a dick.

And finally, complex social ills in America are best solved when we bring a united resolve and effort to the cause. Kaepernick’s divisive display did just the opposite, splitting us even deeper and reconfirming our differences. If you want to solve a problem that will take all of us to fix, the worst way to start is by offending and alienating a large percentage of Americans who are vital to the effort.

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Wabash » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:16 pm

MDDad wrote:“In protest of the mistreatment of the disadvantaged, and the disproportionate violence against blacks in America, I will no longer cash the paychecks I receive from my white devil oppressors.”
MDDad wrote:“I make $16 million a year playing a boys’ game. Effectively immediately, I will donate 50% (or 25%, or 10%) of my pay to organizations dedicated to peacefully resolving those issues.”
MDDad wrote:“I make $16 million a year playing a boys’ game. Effectively immediately, I will donate 50% (or 25%, or 10%) of my pay to organizations dedicated to peacefully resolving those issues.”
Do you believe an individual can only express their opinion about an issue if they support it financially or accept lesser compensation for an activity that is not directly related to that issue? Why? It would make no sense for him to do any of those things.
Last edited by Wabash on Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:30 pm

Luca wrote:33,046........9.16/day. How's that?
How's what?
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:22 pm

Here ya go, boys...Colin's socks draw attention....faces of white pigs with blue police service caps are now the subject of this controversy...interesting.

Less than a week after saying he is protesting the treatment of African-Amercians and other minorities in the United States by not standing during the playing of the national anthem before games, 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick is at the center of another controversy.

Photos of Kaepernick wearing socks in practice that appear to depict policemen as cartoon pigs came to light Thursday. According to multiple reports, the quarterback wore the socks during multiple offseason practices.

Kaepernick released a statement Thursday on his Instagram account explaining why he wore the socks:


"I wore these socks, in the past, because the rogue cops that are allowed to hold positions in police departments, not only put the community in danger, but also put the cops that have the right intentions in danger by creating an environment of tension and mistrust. I have two uncles and friends who are police officers and work to protect and serve ALL people. So before these socks, which were worn before I took my public stance, are used to distract from the real issues, I wanted to address this immediately."

<snip>

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... ding-socks
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:27 pm

Luca wrote:...the appropriateness of a wealthy football player staging a symbolic protest...
MDDad wrote:...I make $16 million a year...
Ah, there we have it...thank you guys for finally being honest. May I translate?

"You live in a room in the big house, we treat you nice and let you eat in the kitchen, yet you have the audicity to call attention to the injustices perpetrated on the other 99%...how dare you! Back to the bunkhouse!"

How did I do? If that isn't what you were trying to say then feel free to explain what his income level has to do with anything...
Luca wrote:I don't think too many people give a damn what his particular point is
Ironically, you are in agreement...that was the whole point of his protest
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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by MDDad » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:45 pm

Once again, Omar, your race-colored glasses have prevented you from seeing the point. I don’t care if Mr. Kaepernick is black, white or green, but if he cares so much about these issues that he’s comfortable offending half of America, I’d hope he would care enough to walk the walk and give some time, money and energy to their improvement. Bill Gates does it. Bono does it. Angelina Jolie does it, as do many other celebrities. If Kaepernick doesn’t, he’s just a narcissistic hypocrite talking the big talk.

On a personal note, I’m not always as subtle as I should be with what I say, but I’ll try and articulate this as delicately as I can: While I respect your intelligence and your ability to turn a clever phrase, and I thoroughly enjoy your humorous barbs at Servite, you can take you constant accusations of racism and shove them up your ass.

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Luca » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:03 pm

But, but........ but...................... that's his whole armamentarium! If he can't pull his race card and display it so as to vindicate his moral superiority then he would have to debate issues based simply on merits. He wouldn't have a fornicating chance. Hardly fair, MDDad................................Luca

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Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Post by Parrotpaul » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:08 pm

Ummmm....there really are some pretty high levels of anger gentlemen...what were you guys doing back in the 60''s? This stuff is pretty ho hummish.
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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