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49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:45 am
by cruiser
Thoughts?

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:13 am
by John Q. Public
Freedom of speech on the one hand, bad example on the other. Or is that "good example?" No opinion either way, really.

But I do have a question. Everybody's been making a big deal about people putting their hand over their heart lately. Has that become required? If I just stand up at a ball game are people going to throw beer and nachos at me or am I overextrapolating from the Olympics and the conventions. Just standing was all that was expected last time I went.

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:28 am
by cruiser
I've read that proper etiquette is to place you right hand over your heart when the national anthem
is played or the USA flag passes by but it's not required - probably 40% do it and 60% not and vice versa
depending where you are at....

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:34 am
by Parrotpaul
John Q. Public wrote:Freedom of speech on the one hand, bad example on the other. Or is that "good example?" No opinion either way, really.
Pretty much my view as well. If sporting events want to kick off the event with nationalistic songs, they should vary the choices. America the Beautiful, God Bless America (not for a blessing..I like the tune...it's at least inspiring), Celito Lindo (in the southwest and west). Other good choices are available.

I'd just as soon they did away with the tradition...meh.

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:45 am
by not4u13
There are some public figures that make a choice to send a message and CK (sorry, not spelling his name) is one of those people. His method may feel disrespectful to a lot of people, but if you want people to pay attention, you've got to rock the boat. People are generally pretty complacent. BLM has tried and has been chastised for being too vilolent, even though BLM was not responsible for inciting the violence. CK is trying to draw attention to the same issue in a silent protest sort of way. More power to him, but he should also expect that when he makes that choice there will be a while lot of people who don't understand.

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:18 am
by Wabash
not4u13 wrote: More power to him, but he should also expect that when he makes that choice there will be a while lot of people who don't understand.
My thoughts exactly. Given his statements since the controversy erupted I believe he knew that before his act. Kaepernick has had his own unique experiences as a black man in America and is entitled to an opinion informed by that lived experience. That is as patriotic (IMO) to those who are criticizing him.

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:38 pm
by ShiftyMutt
Have you read the entire lyrics of the national anthem? It's war and dark and bloody, then there's that mention of slaves. Of course it reflects the time it was written but Russia's is puppies and rainbows compared to ours.
Maybe it's time for a rewrite, something closer to the Canadian anthem.

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:25 pm
by Luca
I think there is a certain point being missed here.

Nobody seems to dispute the guy's right to protest whatever he thinks is protestable by whatever harmless symbolic gesture he chooses. If he wants to protest the racist/capitalist/imperialist/misogynist USA by doing one-handed pushups to rap music while wearing Chairman Mao suits, feel free.

The point is where and when he is exercising his heroic gestures. When he is playing football for the 49ers he is a member of that organization and they have the right to expect a certain professionalism. By ostentatiously calling attention to himself for an issue that has nothing to do with the San Francisco 49ers he will inevitably detract from team cohesion and the interests of the organization, and that is wrong.

He is on a football field for perhaps 5 hours once per week during the football season. He has the rest of his time to act out whatever particular vision he has for the world and nobody is stopping him from doing that. But by utilizing that brief period when he is a representative of his team and his organization he is causing unjustifiable harm to his employer.

What reputable law firm, for example, would permit its employees while at the office and mingling with clients to wear Nazi regalia, gang insignia, or any of the innumerable profane T-shirts that seem to circulate these days? Even in high schools we generally don't allow teenagers to wear gang clothing, politically motivated shirts, unusually revealing clothing, etc. etc. Are their rights being violated or are they simply being expected to live up to a reasonable standard while at school or work?

If it were my organization, I'd tell the guy to do whatever the hell he would like during the week or in the off season when he is on his own time. But when you're on a 49ers football field wearing a 49ers uniform, leave your political activities and narcissism at home. I am paying you $19 million to play football and you are damaging my product, son..............................Luca

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:08 pm
by MDDad
1. "O Canada" is the best national anthem ever. I hear it dozens of times a year before NHL games and it always gives me chills. And it’s so much easier to sing than our own.

2. Whenever a celebrity athlete or entertainer, with their $20 million mansions and net worths reaching into eight or nine figures, performs one of these made-for-youtube protests, it always makes me wonder: With their weeks or months of free time, and all the disposable cash in the world, how much of either do they actual volunteer to improve the cause they are protesting? Do they really contribute time and money to the solutions, or does their concern and commitment end as soon as “and the home of the brave” is completed.

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:42 pm
by cruiser
I like "O Canada" but you know it's only been around for 30? years or so, so it was written in
contemporary style. Canada's anthem used to be, "God save the Queen"?, from the British
colony days. Canada is still a British Commonwealth Country.

On A side note, why would something as, you have to stand for the national anthem even if
you are picking your nose not be in a NFL player's contract?

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:48 pm
by Wabash
CK says America isn't great. What is the difference between he and Donald Trump?

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:31 pm
by ocfootballfan
I think his actions are despicable. He makes millions....why doesn't he use some of it to correct the injustice he says is out there? Luca is right... The 49'ers should dump him asap

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:16 pm
by Luca
There probably is some sort of language in an NFL contract about conduct and public relations but I don't know what it is. I imagine it never occurred to anybody that they would need to put in specific language about something so basic as standing at attention for the National Anthem. There's probably no language specifically regarding flipping off the crowd or mooning the refs, either.

There is probably some clause in there that the 49ers could utilize to get a leash on the guy's theatrics, but you wonder if the NFL players Association would try to portray it as a civil rights issue.

He's a strange guy. Somebody commented that he sounds like that guy who believes everything he reads on the Internet. He's pretty much just ended his NFL career. What owner would antagonize his fan base
by picking up his contract?...........Luca

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:20 pm
by Parrotpaul
White people: ""Black people should protest peacefully!"

*Black person sits quietly during national anthem*

White people No, not like that!"...Charlotte@charlotteirene8

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:25 pm
by Luca
What "white people" are those, paternalistic Great White Father?

Not surprisingly, you missed the point by a fairly wide margin, Paul. The issue is not what the hell his melodramatic issue du jouris, it's the fact that he mocks American tradition and the American flag. I don't think too many people give a damn what his particular point is........Luca

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:43 pm
by Parrotpaul
.....it's the fact that he mocks American tradition and the American flag.

So did those people who peed on the flag, spit on the flag, burned the flag, and wore it as clothing. SCOTUS said they were protected by the First Amendment.

I'm not even close to being nationalistic...this whole thing is blown up waaayyy too much. They should do away with the NA before athletic events, IMO...and they can ditch the pledge as well.

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:04 pm
by Luca
You know, Paul, you really should read somebody's post before you bring out the knee-jerk slogans. Nobody said the guy has no right to be as melodramatic as he would like. The issue is not whether it's a constitutional violation or not for God's sake. It's about the common sense and consideration of his behavior. He's got 163 hours the remainder of the week that he can act out and nobody would give a damn. We all have issues that are important to us but we also understand – most of us – that there's a time and a place and a certain respect you should have for your coworkers and your institution, if not your national traditions. It's like when that clown Kanye West jumped up on the stage when Taylor Swift was receiving some award. The fact that he felt strongly that his wife should have gotten the award does not excuse his boorish behavior in choosing the wrong time and the wrong venue. Common sense and consideration...............

Why should they do away with the national anthem before events? Because for whatever reason you personally don't like it?................................Luca

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:17 pm
by Parrotpaul
As I said earlier...I'm not the nationalistic sort. Playing the anthem before sporting events to me is annoying. Sorry...it's an opinion, Luca. You don't have to agree with it. That's your right.

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:23 pm
by Luca
But "they should do away with it" because it annoys you. And you graciously grant me the right to disagree. I'm greatly in your debt..............................Luca

Re: 49er Kaepernick not standing for national anthem

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:24 pm
by Fordama
Actually, Luca, there has been a lot of crap on the internet saying he should be fined or cut, and of course the usual "America, love it or leave it" crap. It might not have made it on this board, but between the Scout boards I frequent, Facebook, and Twitter, there have been a lot of people wanting him punished for not standing.

But I don't think he mocked those traditions as much as took advantage of them. I do think he's a bit off-based as the American flag is the flag of the national government, which has done a lot for the civil rights of minorities. It's largely been state governments and local agencies that have been victimizing Blacks in many parts of the country.

Fordama