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Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:44 am
by Wabash
She needs to go. She's gotten her ass kicked in the last three election cycles.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:56 am
by John Q. Public
I hope they do replace her. She was as bad a Speaker/Minority Leader as any of the Republicans I've complained about. She's a good, strong party person and a helluva fund raiser but she's been completely non-productive as a leader.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:40 am
by Tommy Tar


War on the Democratic Party. #-o

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:52 am
by Tommy Tar
Ryan’s challenge hinges largely on the argument that Pelosi, a San Francisco liberal widely despised in conservative circles, simply projects the wrong image for a party hoping to broaden its appeal to the Rust Belt voters who flocked to Trump.

“We have got to have the right messenger,” he said. “We have got to have someone who cannot just go on MSNBC, but go on Fox and Fox Business and CNBC and go into union halls and fish fries and churches all over the country and start a brush fire about what a new Democratic Party looks like.”
=snip=
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/30779 ... ret-ballot

This is not what the young angry left in the party want to see. Fox, churches and fish fries. :giggle: So to win back the vote Ryan wants to move the Dems to the right.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:18 am
by John Q. Public
Not what he said. All he said was that Democrats need to stop preaching to the choir - or in Pelosi's case, dictating to the choir.

What Democrats really need to do is take control of their message. Letting the GOP and the Conservative media portray Democrats and even moderate Republicans as "evil leftists" has been their biggest shortcoming for at least the last ten years.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:36 am
by Tommy Tar
The Democratic Party has 3 maybe 4 choirs all wanting stage time.

1. Pelosi. Great at getting big money from the left and right coast.
2. Ryan. We need to get back to the white middle class blue collar worker.
3. The Social Justice Warrior. The BLM, occupy movement. Anti police, banks, wall street.
4. ?

Under Pelosi and President Obama the feds were too focused on social issues. Same sex marriage, gender confused boys wanting to shower with the girls. Punishing a little mom and pop bakery for not making a cake or jumping all over a city cop for a shooting before any information is known.

The "new left" has a chance to get power in the party and sit at the adult table. As we have seen over the last year or two if things don't go their way they riot.


Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:09 am
by John Q. Public
Can you name one House Democrat (any Democrat in general, for that matter) who's anti-police? Exactly what I mean by taking control of their message.

I don't agree that they need to go full "progressive" either, but they do need to shift to a more populist POV. People wanted that this year. I have a feeling policies over the next four years are going to be their biggest asset on that. Warren or somebody like her is going to look awfully strong after four long years of Trump.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:30 am
by John Q. Public
Oh. Tommy, I had to look up your signature because it doesn't sound at all like something Franklin would have said. This is from Wikiquote but there are others.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

Widely attributed to Franklin on the Internet, sometimes without the second sentence. It is not found in any of his known writings, and the word "lunch" is not known to have appeared anywhere in English literature until the 1820s, decades after his death. The phrasing itself has a very modern tone and the second sentence especially might not even be as old as the internet. Some of these observations are made in response to a query at Google Answers. [8]
The earliest known similar statements are:
A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Gary Strand, Usenet group sci.environment, 23 April 1990. [9]
Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
Marvin Simkin, "Individual Rights", Los Angeles Times, 12 January 1992. [10]
Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
James Bovard, Lost Rights: The Destruction of American Liberty (1994), ISBN 0312123337, p. 333.
Also cited as by Bovard in the Sacramento Bee (1994)


https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_ ... attributed

Edit - corrected the attribution. Anachronisms aside, that isn't the way a northerner would have defined "liberty."

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:32 pm
by Tommy Tar
The anti police, banks, wall street voice is coming from the Social Justice Warrior group not the old guard $$$ of the party. The Sanders and Warren people that are in the streets or having meltdowns on their college campus. The ones who have never lost an election until now want to bring their in your face attitude to the party. The old Democratic and GOP were in the center. The Democratic a little to the left. The GOP a little to the right. The pendulum swings back and forth and IMO the social issues and PC went way too far to the left.

The Ryan and Pelois teams can work together but the SJW people are pissed off to the max and don't want to work their way to the top. They want change now are are willing to get ugly to get it. The SJW types will drive many dems to the GOP. If the old guard $$$ keeps the young SJW out of power the young college age voters will stay home or start a new party.

In a new world where people are super rich and famous at 22 years old these young kids don't want to work their way up the ladder. They don't want to work in the party for 20 or more years before they get a job with real power.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:54 pm
by Professor Fate
Very accurate assessment Tommy, IMHO. Either way, it leads to a split in the Democratic party. Should be fun to watch.

A disastrous Trump administration is the only thing that can save them. But even then, if it's really as bad as the Dems expect, the Republican nominee in 2020 would most likely be someone other than Trump.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:44 pm
by Professor Fate
The Dems went with Nancy Pelosi again? Good for them! It worked so well the last few elections. The Coastal Party doubles down!

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:15 pm
by Wabash
SMH. Three ass kickings in a row wasn't enough.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:18 pm
by MDDad
The two major parties are different in many ways. But one way they are identical is that they can both be boneheadedly stupid.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:29 pm
by Omar Bongo
Someone should change the title of this thread

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:08 am
by Reconquista Primero
MDDad: Right on!
When I registered to vote at 18, even then I couldn't stand the idea of being associated with any political party. I registered as undeclared or non-partisan or whatever it was way back when and haven't regretted my decision.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:50 am
by John Q. Public
Do you get any less mail? I'm thinking about doing the same now that we have open primaries.

I started out "decline to state," got tired of never voting and switched to Libertarian. Got tired of my vote not mattering and realized their principles can't work in the real world and switched to Republican until they got too crazy for me. Now I'm voting mostly Democratic but I'm not crazy about the party. Maybe I was meant to be Independent all along.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:58 am
by MDDad
Would anyone else be happy if there were no political parties? I think I would. Imagine every candidate for every office having to run on his own merits, policy positions and fundraising abilities rather than riding the wave of a huge political machine pushing him forward. It would also eliminate the millions(?) of voters who vote for candidates simply because they have a D or an R next to their names without knowing anything else about them. Would that not be a good thing?

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:00 am
by Reconquista Primero
JQP: In the partisan races, I get substantially fewer political mailers as compared to Reconquista Primera who was a member of a political party until this year. That will probably continue until her name disappears from the mailing lists that get sold and re-sold.
In the non-partisan races, the effluent continues to clog my mailbox.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:01 am
by Reconquista Primero
MDDad: While I agree with you about the parties, the 1st Amendment freedom of association clause might be implicated.

Re: Civil war in the republican party.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:28 am
by John Q. Public
MDD wrote:Imagine every candidate for every office having to run on his own... fundraising abilities...
Sort of agree except for that part.That's our biggest problem, unless donations are capped at 20 bucks. Funny that you'd say that after the conversation had turned to Pelosi. She's one of the best in the business at that.