"the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Bick
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Bick »

Vilepagan wrote:Which means what? No doubt there are, but are they right?



Well, he tends to make comments about things other than policy a great deal of the time don't you think?
Until we can define an objective scoreboard, makes it a little tough, right? Especially when the focus is on the person, and not much else. Based on all the marches and the sky-is-falling "disaster" stuff, I'd say a very large portion of the population believe the person IS the new scoreboard.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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Vilepagan wrote:Complaining about Obama...kinda takes you back to the good old days when there was a competent person to criticize in the Oval Office.
I wasn't complaining, and certainly not about Obama.

But, yeah...although "competent" might be too strong a word.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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Bick wrote: Based on all the marches and the sky-is-falling "disaster" stuff, I'd say a very large portion of the population believe the person IS the new scoreboard.
You're talking about the people who elected trump right?
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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Yeah - all the pro-Trump march participants.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by broman »

Diffrent person but gives some insight on what Trump "means" for some folks

American Sniper Chris Kyle acts of heroism

In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Kyle traveled to New Orleans and killed about thirty “looters” from a perch on top of the Superdome.
During the funeral of a fellow Navy SEAL, Kyle punched out Jesse Ventura for saying something defamatory about SEALs.
In 2009, Kyle shot and killed two individuals who attempted to steal his truck and was released by police without questioning due to the intercession of the Department of Defense

The film based on Kyle’s book complicated an already tangled narrative, though adaptation of autobiographies to the silver screen frequently invokes creative license. But the rumors that quickly became part of Kyle’s legend came not from the book-to-film evolution but rather from the man himself.

[W]riter Michael McAffrey is far less kind. He excoriates Kyle and reporters who have failed to question Kyle’s bogus stories …

Kyle also told a story about killing a pair of carjackers in Texas and then dialing up the Pentagon for the law enforcement officials who arrived at the scene. That’s another story that nobody — no police, deputy, coroner or witness — has been able to confirm. McAffrey writes, “Just like he didn’t shoot two car jackers in the middle of nowhere Texas, and he didn’t shoot looters in the aftermath of Katrina. None of those things are true … but that doesn’t mean there aren’t people who desperately need them to be true.”
https://www.snopes.com/politics/military/kyleclaims.asp
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Omar Bongo »

Bick wrote: Anyone who dares to express support of one or more of his policies gets branded a "Trump supporter", and you know what that stereotype is.
Hmmm...let's see...would that be "Elitist"? "Illuminati"? "Socialist"? "Snowflake"? Am I getting warm?
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not4u13
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by not4u13 »

I didn't like Obama when he was in office, but at least I didn't cringe every time he opened his mouth.
I didn't like the ACA or the way it was passed, but it was better than what we had and it ensured my kids had health insurance until they were 25.
I thought Obama's foreign policy made us weak, but at least I didn't wake up every morning feeling like we were on the brink of war with North Korea or some other nation.
I watched the headlines while Obama was in office of all the new government regulations that were going into place and I felt we were making it too tough on businesses to do business in our country, but at least there was a clear agenda to protect the environment behind most of them.
I found it amusing when the Obama administration continued to focus on the unemployment numbers when everyone knew there were issues with them, and yet the economy did steadily improve and people did go back to work. Maybe those numbers weren't so fake after all.

I found Donald Trump mildly amusing on the Apprentice. Part of why I liked the show is you could not predict what was going to happen in the board room. I now watch him as President and have the same feeling, but I'm no longer amused.

There are a few things Trump has done so far that I think are good, at least for me and my family. I'm not so sure they will be good for the country. I like the tax plan. I think the corporate tax rate could have been a couple of percentage points higher than it ended up and it would have been an even better tax plan, but I like the plan overall. I don't think it will kill the ACA and I don't think business will simply pocket the the savings as profits. It won't simply trickle down to employees, but it will give the US economy, already recovering well under Obama era policies, a good kick in the pants.

What I'm most tired of though is that so many people have chosen a side. Why are there any Trump supporters? Why would anyone blindly support ANY president. Why do people still vote a straight party ticket and stand behind whomever is leading their party for the sake of their party?

This is a discussion board where we should be having good discussions about what's really driving our economy, not childish debates about "who is better". When Trump says or does something stupid, we should all be able to discuss that stupid thing without devolving into a debate on whether or not it was more or less stupid than something Obama did (or Bush or Hillary or anyone else). Separate the man (and the party) from the policy. I wonder how many on here (and across America) would feel differently about "their guy" (or gal) if they did that first. I'm guessing it would be quite a few.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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not4u13 wrote: Separate the man (and the party) from the policy.
I can honestly say that is my concern. If he kept his mouth shut I still wouldn't like him.

For example. He wants $25B to build a wall that will be worthless. Ironic when one considers he made it a major campaign point that another country was going to build it.

Imagine if we spent that amount on something worthwhile like repairing our infrastructure or subsidizing education.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Bick »

not4u13 wrote: What I'm most tired of though is that so many people have chosen a side. Why are there any Trump supporters? Why would anyone blindly support ANY president. Why do people still vote a straight party ticket and stand behind whomever is leading their party for the sake of their party?

This is a discussion board where we should be having good discussions about what's really driving our economy, not childish debates about "who is better". When Trump says or does something stupid, we should all be able to discuss that stupid thing without devolving into a debate on whether or not it was more or less stupid than something Obama did (or Bush or Hillary or anyone else). Separate the man (and the party) from the policy. I wonder how many on here (and across America) would feel differently about "their guy" (or gal) if they did that first. I'm guessing it would be quite a few.
Dilly Dilly! Always liked your takes since the PHS v CHS days when we were on opposite sides.

I think "support" is often mis-characterized as "blind support"...and that's where many of these conversations go sideways into the entertainment realm of character assassination. It's been going on for as long as I can remember. If you were critical of a Reagan policy, you must be a communist, and your argument gets viewed through that lens. If you supported something Obama did, you too must also be a cop hater / race baiter. Now supporting anything Trump means you're a racist, misogynist ignoramus.

As you said, so many have chosen sides. I think we can thank the media (mainstream and secondary) from both sides for leading that charge in an effort to break the "news" on the latest train wreck as the most extreme to gain readership. Unfortunately for them, it's damaged their credibility as being biased. For what appears to be most of the world, it's shaping our opinions into un-objective polar opposites.

Take the name of this thread which started before Trump took office. The guy who started it wouldn't or couldn't articulate a cogent reason WHY he thought it would be a disaster. And here we are, 135 pages later.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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not4u13 wrote:That I'm most tired of though is that so many people have chosen a side. Why are there any Trump supporters? Why would anyone blindly support ANY president. Why do people still vote a straight party ticket and stand behind whomever is leading their party for the sake of their party?
I agree. I've been half-heartedly following presidential politics for over four decades. For all that time, there have disagreements over politics, over social issues, and over interpretations of constitutional rights. But during all that time, the disagreements were not personal. All that seemed to change some time during the Bush II administration. But the time Obama took office, if you disagreed with someone politically or socially, it became more and more likely that you would come to dislike him personally, or consider him stupid. Someone smarter than me would have to explain why that happened, but I'm convinced being "liberal" or "conservative" has little to do with the reasons.

Second, I am a huge opponent of straight-party voting. Without any proof, I'm convinced millions of people vote for candidates (particularly for down-ballot offices) without knowing anything about them other than that they have a D or an R after their name. I think one of the greatest (and easiest) things we could do to improve the quality and credibility of our elections is to remove party designations from the ballot and force voters to know the candidates they vote for.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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Bick wrote:Take the name of this thread which started before Trump took office. The guy who started it wouldn't or couldn't articulate a cogent reason WHY he thought it would be a disaster. And here we are, 135 pages later.
Bingo. Thank you.
Wabash wrote:For example. He wants $25B to build a wall that will be worthless.
I couldn't agree more. But it is exactly like Jerry Brown's insistence on building a bullet train that will also be worthless, if it's ever completed, and can never survive without perpetual public subsidies. And average estimates are that it will cost four times as much as that $25 billion wall. The fascinating thing is that almost without exception, people who support either one of those outrageous boondoggles vehemently oppose the other.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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MDDad wrote: I think one of the greatest (and easiest) things we could do to improve the quality and credibility of our elections is to remove party designations from the ballot and force voters to know the candidates they vote for.
Wow...now there's a fresh idea. I really like this!
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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In defense of the "OP" on this thread: It was a hijack of another thread (probably about the weather or something, knowing the thread "starter") that was split into its own topic and it's since become a dumping ground for anything Trump that isn't really a big enough deal to warrant a new topic.

In defense of party-line voting (sort of): I never did like it and I swore I'd never do it - and I hope to some day not do it again. But... after the performance of the first wave of teabaggers, the wild swing the Republican Party took to the right (and especially to the Religious Right), their blind opposition to anything Democratic and especially anything Obama, and their "corporate, monied interests above all" philosophy, I swore I'd never vote for another one and I'm sticking to it. It might be different if we had a rational, moderate one on the ballot but so far I haven't had to face that dilemma.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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John, so in an election for something like "Orange County Safety Officer", without knowing anything about the candidates' qualifications, you would automatically cast a knee-jerk vote for Charles Manson (D) over Mother Teresa (R)?
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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Just about. But it would be well-thought-out knee-jerk vote.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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John Q. Public wrote: In defense of party-line voting (sort of): I never did like it and I swore I'd never do it
I can honestly say I have voted for individuals in the opposite party numerous times in the last four decades.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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Two people I blame more than any others are Karl Rove and Roger Ailes. Both are/were brilliant men but both took divisiveness to new levels and exploited it for all it's worth. Ailes invented "the mainstream media" ferchrissakes!
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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MDDad wrote:I couldn't agree more.
Yay!
MDDad wrote:But it is exactly like Jerry Brown's insistence on building a bullet train that will also be worthless, if it's ever completed, and can never survive without perpetual public subsidies.
I disagree for two reasons. The first is the canard of public subsidies. Every rail system in the world is subsidized. I'm betting the subsidies of rail and light rail are cheaper than building or expanding roadways.

Secondly, the same arguments were used when the Interstate Highway System was proposed by Eisenhower. Let's turn on the way back machine and examine where that pillar of US infrastructure was first started. They didn't start in NY and work their way towards Seattle. They didn't start in DC and work their ways towards LA.

The first asphalt was laid outside of St. Louis and worked outward in both east and west directions.

The same arguments of it being a pork barrel or unnecessary were used. In addition to the public subsidy argument. I would say over six decades later very few Americans would argue the IHS was not a vital part of American infrastructure and commerce.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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John Q. Public wrote: Ailes invented "the mainstream media" ferchrissakes!
Given the ratings of FNC, wouldn't they also be considered part of the MSM?
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

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Wabash, thanks for proving my contention - love one boondoggle, hate the other.
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