If you like your cancer, you can keep it

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John Q. Public
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If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:04 pm

Could some of out Republicans/Conservatives please explain what there is to like about the Republican health care bill? I know what I think of it and I know what most Democrats think of it but I'm at a loss to figure out what anybody could like about it. People who keep the numbers say 10 million to 20 million people could lose their coverage, the AMA and the American Hospital Association are against it, the far right is against it - although their version is even worse - and even this guy and all those people behind him will be against it when they figure out what a tax credit means and he has to change his sign to "A thousand dollars a month? Where am I going to get a thousand dollars a month? I thought you were going to get me a job."

Image

But it has its fans, I guess. Paul Ryan, insurance company CEO's who somehow managed to get a raise written into it, and King Donald the Clueless seem to like it.

Could somebody please explain? Is it free will? Some kind of "liberty" issue? "Personal responsibility?" You don't think lower income people deserve health care? You liked the old ER Care, "walk it off, it'll go away" system? Seriously. I can't figure out what there would be to like about any of the Republican proposals. I'd like to understand it but I can't. Can any of you help me out?

Conservatives, please. I don't really care about a Democrat's idea of what Republicans are thinking. I can make that up as well as you can.
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broman
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by broman » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:54 pm

Good article that outlines some of these issues

To conservative policy thinkers, overutilization of health services, encouraged by government subsidies and regulations (along with “defensive medicine” caused by consumer lawsuits), is the primary source of rising health-care prices and virtually every sin of the health-care system.

So when Republican policymakers talk about “personal responsibility” being critical to heath reform, that’s code for making sure Americans feel some pain every single time they access health services. The way you do that is by increasing exposure to out-of-pocket costs via premiums, deductibles, copays, and exposure to big bills if you don’t strictly obey your insurance company’s arcane rules. You can sugarcoat this a bit by offering a tax subsidy for personal savings so that you have more money for those out-of-pocket expenses; that’s the basic point of the Health Savings Account idea, a feature of every conservative health-care proposal since time immemorial, and a particular favorite of Vice President-elect Mike Pence. Indeed, the goal many Republicans have long embraced is a system where everybody gets a high-deductible insurance policy covering catastrophic health conditions, with no insurance at all for routine services, which consumers would handle themselves with some help from an HSA.

Given the chance, of course, Republican pols would introduce “personal responsibility” requirements to Medicaid as well, as GOP governors like Mike Pence have shown in the deals they’ve cut with the Obama administration to expand eligibility in exchange for generous new federal dollars. In the ideal GOP world, everyone would be paying more for routine services — even the very wealthy, who would have to shell out large premiums for concierge services to keep them from rubbing elbows with the hoi polloi in waiting rooms.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... -more.html

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John Q. Public
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:00 pm

I agree that a lot of people overuse their insurance. But then there are people like me who underuse it, too. Twenty-five years of employer-provided insurance and I used it once. And then I still had to pay half of the bill. For every person who sees a doctor every time they get the sniffles, I wouldn't be surprised if there was at least one person like me who says, "Meh. Broken finger. I still have the splint from the last one. No big." But, now that I have to get my eyes fixed, I'm glad I could afford insurance. Putting $10,000 on a credit card, which I'd probably have to do with Ryancare or Donaldcare, would be a bigger problem than not being able to see, even if I did get some of the money back next April.
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Omar Bongo
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by Omar Bongo » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:15 pm

Quite a feat to design a plan that unites Democrats in opposition with both moderate and far-right Republicans...it's almost like nobody knew how complicated health care is...

(PS Nice sign btw...although it'd be too late for gramps, the education crisis in western PA looks to be serious enough to warrant Betsy DeVos helicoptering over and tossing bundles/bales of school vouchers out the window)

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Wabash
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by Wabash » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:25 am

My prediction is this version will crash and burn. The GOP will then start blaming liberals despite having majorities in both houses of congress and control of the White House.

Which will leave Obamacare in place.

Get the popcorn out.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Zebra
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by Zebra » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:04 am

That's a pretty f'd up title for those of us that have lost loved ones and have survived cancer. --:--
Coach, you can call me a S.O.B. all you want. Just don't call me a little S.O.B. [-X

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John Q. Public
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:12 pm

Sorry it isn't pretty but neither is putting 10 to 20 million people, half of whom voted for the bastards, in that situation. For reference, that's about the size of Southern California, depending on if you count San Diego or not.
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MDDad
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by MDDad » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:50 pm

The title of this thread is pretty insensitive, John. Kind of like calling slaves immigrants. According to Paul, that makes you ignorant. Do you buy his logic?

broman
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by broman » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:19 pm

John Q. Public wrote:Sorry it isn't pretty but neither is putting 10 to 20 million people, half of whom voted for the bastards, in that situation. For reference, that's about the size of Southern California, depending on if you count San Diego or not.
Maybe those voters still believe that Trump and his people will force businesses, insurance companies, banks etc.. to "take care" of them in the same matter they believe Obama and the Democrats "took care" of minorities, immigrants and Muslims.

Look at the data
An Urban Institute study found that Obamacare reduced the number of noncollege whites without insurance by 6.2 million between 2010 and 2015, a drop of 39 percent. In 20 of the 30 states that Trump won, more noncollege whites gained coverage than any other group.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/09/the-repu ... oters.html
Has to be something else going on. --:--

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John Q. Public
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:48 pm

That something else is a very effective propaganda campaign.

Paul Ryan today on the "fatal conceit" of Obamacare - "The people who are healthy pay for the people who are sick. It's not working and that's why it's in a death spiral."

Yes, Mr. Speaker, it's insurance. The people who used their insurance once in 25 years pay for the ones who used it more. The people who haven't been in an accident in 28 years pay for the ones who have. It's the way insurance works.

Something similar I heard on the radio today - They asked Trump voters if they still liked him. And they did. Including one woman who owns a shop that sells pottery. Mexican. Pottery. She didn't seem to have thought about that. She's probably given an equal amount of thought to how she's going to pay for her DonaldCare. Or not. She'll probably be on Medicaid after the tariff puts her out of business.
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Wabash
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by Wabash » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:59 pm

We were promised better healthcare at lower costs. I'm betting this doesn't get out of the House of Reps.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Professor Fate
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by Professor Fate » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:12 pm

John Q. Public wrote:by John Q. Public » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:48 pm

Paul Ryan today on the "fatal conceit" of Obamacare - "The people who are healthy pay for the people who are sick. It's not working and that's why it's in a death spiral."

Yes, Mr. Speaker, it's insurance. The people who used their insurance once in 25 years pay for the ones who used it more. The people who haven't been in an accident in 28 years pay for the ones who have. It's the way insurance works.
Not a good summary of the situation by the Speaker, I admit. The real problem is that the people who had affordable insurance are now paying for the people who didn't have any, and the result is that now the former group of insured people can't afford to use their insurance (due to ridiculously increased premiums and deductibles), while the latter group now has cheap insurance.

So the 20 million who didn't have insurance now do, while who knows how many who used to have affordable insurance, for all intents and purposes...don't.
Make Them Cry Again In 2020

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John Q. Public
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by John Q. Public » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:59 am

Nobody has "cheap" insurance except for the ones on Medicaid and the people who light their cigars with hundred dollar bills. A $300 payment by the guy at the bottom of the scale hurts just as much as a $1,500 payment by somebody who makes more.

I saw a number on those people who "used to have affordable insurance" that we keep hearing about (maybe on 538). They said the actual percentage was small enough to be called negligible - especially when it was compared to the number of people who could now afford to get care. And yes, some of those people who hadn't seen a doctor in 20 years found out they needed more than a check-up, same as people who don't change their oil for 20 years find out they need more than an oil change. Fact is that health care ain't cheap. Doctors are expensive, the equipment and services they use are expensive and their insurance is expensive and they all get more expensive practically by the minute. And then there are the insurance and pharmaceutical companies and device manufacturers who aren't in it for their, um, health, as it were. And the investors. Can't forget to pay the owners. You want health care done the 'Merican way, you get health care done the 'Merican way. It isn't like that in other countries. Call me a raving solcalits if you want but it isn't.
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Fordama
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by Fordama » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:45 am

Image
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Zebra
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by Zebra » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:44 am

Where's the middle finger smiley .. Im out.
Coach, you can call me a S.O.B. all you want. Just don't call me a little S.O.B. [-X

seeinred
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by seeinred » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:12 am

OK so this bill is even more UNBELIEVABLE than the GOP's version of ACA... :shock:
Please try and explain how this is a good idea Republicans... O M G!!!

House Republicans would let employers demand workers’ genetic test results
Snip- A little-noticed bill moving through Congress would allow companies to require employees to undergo genetic testing or risk paying a penalty of thousands of dollars, and would let employers see that genetic and other health information.

Giving employers such power is now prohibited by legislation including the 2008 genetic privacy and nondiscrimination law known as GINA. The new bill gets around that landmark law by stating explicitly that GINA and other protections do not apply when genetic tests are part of a “workplace wellness” program.
Genetic Testing for Employment Bill H.R. 1313

seeinred
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by seeinred » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:17 am

High Cholesterol???
No Problem but your insurance will cost you $14,000 per month.
Don't want to participate in our Health Screening??? Not a big deal!!!
Your insurance premiums will now be $22,000 per month!
Thanks GOP, you sure are helping us poor Americans out! Just like you promised... =D>

seeinred
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by seeinred » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:27 am

Also, having control of others DNA is super dangerous! Who's to say that a disgruntled employer wouldn't plant DNA on a crime scene to discredit or fire an employee???
ALL HOUSE REPUBLICANS SUPPORTED THIS BILL (H.R. 1313) IN THE VOTE???
You have to be kidding me?!!!

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John Q. Public
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by John Q. Public » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:36 am

And I thought it was an invasion of my privacy when an employment site I *used to* use started requiring a photograph.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

seeinred
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Re: If you like your cancer, you can keep it

Post by seeinred » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:18 am

"The poor ‘just don’t want health care’: Republican congressman faces backlash over comments"

Here is one for the sign carrying dude up at the top of this post and all of his brethren who drank the Kool-Aid of Trumps promises... Your Republican leaders are showing just how much they care for you and want to help you...

Snip-
A first-term congressman who spent three decades as a physician — and is now part of a group of Republican doctors who have a major role in replacing Obamacare — is facing backlash after saying that poor people “just don’t want health care and aren’t going to take care of themselves.”

Rep. Roger Marshall, (R-Kan.), a member of the GOP Doctors Caucus, said comments he made to Stat News were not meant to suggest that poor people take health care for granted. The comments were published in a story last week about his burgeoning role in the fight to replace the Affordable Care Act.

“Just like Jesus said, ‘The poor will always be with us,’ ” Marshall said in response to a question about Medicaid, which expanded under Obamacare to more than 30 states. “There is a group of people that just don’t want health care and aren’t going to take care of themselves.”

He added that “morally, spiritually, socially,” the poor, including the homeless, “just don’t want health care.”

“The Medicaid population, which is [on] a free credit card as a group, do probably the least preventive medicine and taking care of themselves and eating healthy and exercising. And I’m not judging; I’m just saying socially that’s where they are,” he told Stat News, a website focused on health-care coverage. “So there’s a group of people that even with unlimited access to health care are only going to use the emergency room when their arm is chopped off or when their pneumonia is so bad they get brought [to] the ER.”

Poor People Don't Want Health Care

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