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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:39 pm
by John Q. Public
But it isn't over. Roger Stone doesn't go on trial until November, the SDNY investigation is still ongoing, Mueller's grand jury is still seated and there could very well be prosecutions recommended to other agencies in his report. And at this point nobody outside of the DOJ knows that. We might know more in a couple weeks, but in the meantime it really isn't over. Honest. Far from it.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:42 pm
by Wabash
John Q. Public wrote: We might know more in a couple weeks, but in the meantime it really isn't over. Honest. Far from it.
And that IS the truth.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:27 am
by Vilepagan
Red wrote: OMG! How funny. Quoting the NPR poll. That's hilarious!
What's wrong with NPR?

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:23 am
by John Q. Public
This from a Washington Examiner article demanding that the report be made public:
Now, in a letter to the House and Senate Judiciary committees, Barr said he would release the nearly 400-page report within weeks but that there are four different considerations that would lead to the redaction of certain material.

Those considerations were: 1.) grand jury material, 2.) material that could compromise "sources and methods" of the intelligence community, 3.) material that could affect other ongoing legal matters, and 4.) material that could cause privacy or reputational concerns to "peripheral third parties."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... ler-report
Also, for our English teacher friends, this sentence:

"In such an appearance, Democrats will be no doubt grilling him on the omitted material, and he better be armed with a reasonable explanation."

I've been known to split an infinitive or two, but that one's out of my league.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:57 am
by Luca
It’s over. The issue was the fantasy that a US president plotted with the commies to steal an election. It didn’t happen, as has been obvious to most for some time.

The report is in, no sufficient evidence despite exhaustive investigation. That was the whole point. It’s over.

Conspiracists will - as conspiracists do - argue interminably whether it was Col. Mustard with the candlestick in the billiards room or Miss Plum with the knife in the kitchen, but nothing will come of it and it will probably join the Rosenbergs and Saccho/Vanzetti in conspiracy lore.

It is far more likely that there will be legal action against those in the government who pushed this nonsense without justification.

Smell the roses, JQ. When you’ve invested so much time and energy to a mistaken belief it is hard to admit failure, but eventually one needs to let it go. It’s over................Luca

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:53 pm
by Wabash
Then there should be no issue releasing the unredacted report to the public. Yet that isn't being done.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:04 pm
by broman
It can't be over. Luca, you must of missed the Trump rally in Michigan the other night. Did you get a chance to read up on the "Q" folks who are having an increasing presence at Trump rally's? Did you see 9/11 and Sandy Hook truther and Alex Jones claim he is a victim of psychosis because of the "trauma of the media and the corporations lying so much". So before you dismiss us fellow Trump/Russia conspiracists, take a look at the alternative.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:36 pm
by crayegg
Luca, why are you so dismissive of the documented behavior and actions of this president? He has lowered the bar so far I have trouble believing reasonable people can just accept it.

I shouldn't have to list the examples of what I'm talking about to anybody who's paying the least bit of attention.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:49 pm
by John Q. Public
Luca wrote: Smell the roses, JQ. When you’ve invested so much time and energy to a mistaken belief it is hard to admit failure, but eventually one needs to let it go. It’s over................Luca
You might prove me wr... wr... er, mistaken with enough searching but I don't remember ever saying that Donald, himself, COLLUDED with Russia. Junior, Jared or somebody in his campaign maybe, but Don himself, I doubt. No claims, though, about whether or not he might have been compromised or maybe knew about Russia's involvement and merely took advantage of it. He's obviously hiding something. An innocent man just wouldn't do all the things he's done.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:41 pm
by Wabash
As was pointed out. The Barr memo doesn't say he didn't or his campaign didn't collude with the Russians.

It says they didn't collude with the Russian government.

Big difference.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:57 pm
by John Q. Public
Very big difference. "Colluding" with "Russians" isn't necessarily a problem.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:22 pm
by Wabash
Depends. Accepting support from a foreign individual or group on a federal campaign is illegal.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:46 am
by Vilepagan
Luca wrote: It’s over. The issue was the fantasy that a US president plotted with the commies to steal an election.
No, the investigation wasn't started over a fantasy, nor was it begun to investigate whether or not the president or his associates 'colluded' with anyone.

Here's a short summary from Wikipedia that should help:

When the special counsel was appointed by Rod Rosenstein in May 2017, the special counsel took over an existing counterintelligence investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) into what proved to be Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections and numerous secretive links between Trump associates and Russian officials. According to reports, Australian officials informed American officials that in May 2016, a Trump presidential campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, told the Australian High Commissioner to Britain, Alexander Downer, that Russian officials were in possession of politically damaging information relating to Hillary Clinton, the rival presidential candidate to Trump. Since the FBI, in response to this information, opened an investigation into the links between Trump associates and Russian officials on July 31, 2016, the meeting between Papadopoulos and Downer is considered to be the 'spark' that led to the Mueller investigation. In February 2018, the Nunes memo, written by staff for U.S. Representative Devin Nunes, described that the information on Papadopoulos "triggered the opening of" the original FBI investigation, rather than the Trump-Russia dossier as asserted by, among others, Trump, Nunes, Fox News hosts Steve Doocy, Ed Henry, Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Fox News contributor Andrew McCarthy.

The special counsel also took over an FBI investigation on whether President Trump had committed obstruction of justice, which began within eight days after Trump's dismissal of FBI Director James Comey. CNN reported in December 2018 that then-acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe started the investigation based on Comey's firing—which had been recommended in writing by Rosenstein in what became known as the Comey memo—and also Comey's allegation that Trump had asked him to stop investigating Trump's former national security adviser Michael Flynn. In February 2019, McCabe, since fired from the FBI, confirmed he launched the obstruction of justice investigation for those reasons, and gave additional reasons such as Trump's multiple depictions of the investigation into Trump associates and Russia as a "witch hunt", as well as Trump allegedly telling Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to mention the Russia probe in Rosenstein’s memo to recommend firing Comey, and Trump's comments to the Russian ambassador and NBC relating Comey's firing to the Russia probe.

Once Attorney General Sessions recused, oversight of any Russia investigation into the 2016 election fell to the Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, a Trump appointee. As part of his oversight, Rosenstein appointed Robert Mueller as special counsel in May 2017 with the mandate "to oversee the previously-confirmed FBI investigation of Russian government efforts to influence the 2016 presidential election and related matters."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_C ... 80%932019)

I hope that helps clear up any "collusion confusion" you may be experiencing.
It didn’t happen, as has been obvious to most for some time.
I'd have to say that your conclusions are no more accurate than your erroneous assumptions about the investigation.

What's been "obvious" to most for some time is that trump is hiding something...that's why he lies every time he opens his mouth. What's also obvious is that so far we have no idea what Mr. Mueller found relating to the question of obstruction.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:33 am
by Wabash
Here you go Luca.

SNL did a great job of explaining what was actually said versus what Trump supporters heard......Wabash


Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:55 am
by Fordama
Luca wrote:It’s over. The issue was the fantasy that a US president plotted with the commies to steal an election. It didn’t happen, as has been obvious to most for some time.
Obvious as long as you ignored the significant circumstantial evidence and discounted the continued lies by the President himself. Now it turns out that perhaps there wasn't enough evidence to pursue any prosecution. Of course the obstruction of justice is still hanging over him. I never expected any collusion to reach Trump himself. He's been operating on the fringes of the law long enough to protect himself. I am surprised that no more indictments have come.

We'll know for sure when and if the report is out. So far nobody whom I would remotely trust has read the report other than those who wrote it.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:17 am
by Wabash
It seems that every day we read from conservative pundits that government is inefficient, incompetent, and run by corrupt individuals.

Yet that same group is telling us to believe the Barr Memo unconditionally.

Hmmm......

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:38 am
by Vilepagan
In case anyone believed Luca's claim about what "most" people think...

Most Americans don't think Trump is in the clear yet on Russia, new poll finds

WASHINGTON — Even as the White House claims vindication from the summary of special counsel Robert Mueller’s findings in the Russia probe, the American public does not see a clear verdict about whether President Donald Trump has been cleared of wrongdoing.

According to a new NBC News/ Wall Street Journal poll, 29 percent of Americans say they believe Trump has been cleared of wrongdoing, based on what they have heard about Mueller’s findings, while 40 percent say they do not believe he has been cleared.

But a third of Americans — 31 percent — say they’re not sure if Trump has been cleared. That includes nearly half of independents (45 percent) and about a quarter of both Democrats (27 percent) and Republicans (25 percent.)


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... de-n989061

So I guess "most" Americans don't think like Luca thinks they do...

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:40 am
by John Q. Public
It's almost as if Republicans are getting different information than the rest of us.

Two graphics from another survey, the second maybe fitting better into the WTF thread:

Image
Image

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:36 pm
by Vilepagan
John Q. Public wrote: It's almost as if Republicans are getting different information than the rest of us.
Yeah, almost. Sadly, it's that they're processing the information differently. One wonders what makes Republicans trust trump more than Mueller, and why they seem to disbelieve the Russians did try to influence the election.

Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:45 pm
by John Q. Public
Despite overwhelming evidence that they did. And despite the fact that, two years in, it doesn't change anything.