How long is too long

[MDDad]

Had a great conversation about this over the Thanksgiving break...

N4u13, I also had a great conversation with a gentleman about this subject, although it was a few weeks before Halloween. He used to teach biology and anatomy/physiology at Cal State Fullerton, so I respect him when he speaks in his areas of expertise. He brought up a different angle that hasn't been broached on this forum:

It is a powerful and deeply-ingrained instinct of the males of almost every mammal species on earth to breed with as many females as possible in order to pass along his genes and continue his bloodline. (It is also a powerful and deeply-ingrained instinct of the females of almost every mammal species on earth to breed with the biggest, strongest, gaudiest, most dominant male in her territory in order to protect her offspring and pass along her genes and bloodline, but that's a different subject.) We are mammals, and somewhere deeply buried in our DNA that instinct still exists, subjugated as it may be by social mores and taboos with which it is in conflict. What we are seeing may be the borders of that conflict breaking down in some men. We think of ourselves as social animals first, who live by long established rules and boundaries of behavior, but is it possible that in some males those rules take second place to their biological imperatives?

[Professor Fate]

In the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie, Captain Jack Sparrow is sword fighting with Will Turner, when Turner accuses Sparrow of cheating. To which Capt. Jack looks at him and says, "Pirate!" as if to say "what did you expect from a pirate?"

Whenever I say something risque around my wife (usually to elicit a laugh), and she objects calling me a pervert, I have started to answer "Guy!"

Is it time to acknowledge that guys are just wired that way, and deep down all men are pigs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLumu0DcycM

[Vilepagan]

Is it time to acknowledge that guys are just wired that way, and deep down all men are pigs?

We can acknowledge it as long as we don't excuse it.

[MDDad]

Is it time to acknowledge that guys are just wired that way, and deep down all men are pigs?

Biology tells us mammals are wired that way, but the overwhelming majority of us can control it. It's the few whose wiring short-circuits that are the offending reprehensibles.

[Omar Bongo]

We think of ourselves as social animals first, who live by long established rules and boundaries of behavior, but is it possible that in some males those rules take second place to their biological imperatives?

The Scorpion and the Frog - Aesop 620–564 BC

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

[John Q. Public]

I swear I'm about ready to put "Never been accused of sexual harassment" on my resume. Sounds like a good time to be applying for high-powered positions.

[MDDad]

If we continue on the current path, the days when a man could ask a woman on a date without risking his career are rapidly drawing to a close.

[John Q. Public]

Garrison Keillor?

[Vilepagan]

I think everyone here is intelligent enough to know what's appropriate and what's not, and I truly doubt any of these sexual harassment complaints we've been hearing about had anything to do with dating, courtship, or flirtation.

[Wabash]

[not4u13]

The biological instinct argument is interesting, especially when coupled with the discussion on social norms and the evolution of what is considered acceptable behavior. Hollywood glamorized the sexy receptionist having an affair with her married boss in numerous movies. Men in power were not necessarily expected to control their inhibitions. If they were married, they could not be accused of rape either. Over the years, the role of women in society has changed and the expectation is that men would shift as well. It takes generations to overcome these societal norms, especially when there are natural instincts at play. But we can (and should) change.

[John Q. Public]

Boy, I can't agree with that line of thinking. "Natural instinct" is also to clobber somebody over the head and take their stuff or to fart whenever and wherever you please. I don't do those and I've never been tempted to have an affair or to do anything at all that could be construed as sexual harassment. I do look, but I'd never touch. It just isn't right and it isn't my place to. Maybe I got a better upbringing than other guys or maybe I'm just weird, but those thoughts never even cross my mind.

[not4u13]

I completely agree with you JQP. Ethical behavior is most easily measured by the actions you take when you don't think you'll get caught. There are natural instincts, but choosing to forego ethics and common decency in favor is just not what a civilized society is built upon.