The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by John Q. Public » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:02 pm

Legal Twitter is saying that Cipollone should be disbarred for flat out lying in his opening statement, and they're questioning just what CJ Roberts' role is if nonsense like that can be allowed.

And there's this:

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:10 pm

Kafka is spinning...

Schumer proposed an amendment requiring the WH to submit all pertinent documents but of course it went down on party-line vote...

"Republicans argued Democrats’ call for more documents meant they were bringing a factually deficient case to trial, while Democrats highlighted the White House’s prior failure to comply with congressionally issued subpoenas."

So ridiculous it's funny, kinda...they defy subpoenas for evidence and then accuse you of not having enough evidence

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-BBZb5tu

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by John Q. Public » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:47 pm

Does gaslighting Congress count?
U.S. Code Title 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE Part I. CRIMES Chapter 47. FRAUD AND FALSE STATEMENTS Section 1001. Statements or entries generally

18 U.S. Code § 1001.Statements or entries generally

(a)Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(1)falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2)makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3)makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.

(b)Subsection (a) does not apply to a party to a judicial proceeding, or that party’s counsel, for statements, representations, writings or documents submitted by such party or counsel to a judge or magistrate in that proceeding.

(c)With respect to any matter within the jurisdiction of the legislative branch, subsection (a) shall apply only to—
(1)administrative matters, including a claim for payment, a matter related to the procurement of property or services, personnel or employment practices, or support services, or a document required by law, rule, or regulation to be submitted to the Congress or any office or officer within the legislative branch; or
(2)any investigation or review, conducted pursuant to the authority of any committee, subcommittee, commission or office of the Congress, consistent with applicable rules of the House or Senate.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by John Q. Public » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:10 pm

For those who might have hoped for justice from the Senate, here's your impeachment in two tweets.




The majority of Alaskans don't like Trump but a good number of them would still vote against Murkowski keeping her job if she votes to remove him from office. And note that the "unsure/no opinion" count on that question swells by 15%, so it's likely to be even higher than the number who disapprove of Trump, come election day.

McConnell cited Hamilton (or was it Madison?) in saying that impeachment is a "political" process but they used different definitions. Hamilton (Madison?) used the generic, first definition, where McConnell is using the second one that adds the word "partisan." The Republican argument isn't to right or wrong, to constitutionality or legality or to the Senators' consciences or their legacies. It isn't to the Senators at all - it's to the partisan, disinformed voters who will keep them in office. It's to the voters of Fox Nation, facts and truthfulness be damned.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by Omar Bongo » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:00 am

I don't agree with the idea that the word "political" is synonymous with "partisan". It ain't necessarily so.

Was the Nixon impeachment a partisan process?
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:39 am

Silly us.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by Wabash » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:59 am

Given what is NOT being allowed, this is a kangaroo court.

No offense meant to kangaroos.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:06 am

Picture of the infamous Senate candy desk. Other than what looks like a couple Hershey's Kisses somebody threw in there, it looks like frickin' Christmas candy. Jesus! That's inhuman!

senate candy desk.jpg
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:54 pm

The first Article of Impeachment is an allegation that Trump held the aid to Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Biden but lead lawyer Jay Sekulow says there's no mention of a quid pro quo.

Seriously, is 37% of our country really that freaking dumb? #Troubling
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by Omar Bongo » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:09 pm

Now that Bolton says he'll testify the House should subpoena him, listen to what he has to say and then if it's explosive enough, pass another article
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by Wabash » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:06 pm

John Q. Public wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:54 pm
Seriously, is 37% of our country really that freaking dumb? #Troubling
Yup.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:01 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:09 pm
Now that Bolton says he'll testify the House should subpoena him, listen to what he has to say and then if it's explosive enough, pass another article
They should subpoena him anyway, but there is the matter of "things happening" to Yovanovic and possible involvement with Burisma's competitor. Maybe they could do it concurrently with an investigation of Nunes (who, oddly, was the only guy in town who knew how to pronounce Parnas' name correctly even though he'd never heard of him).
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:06 pm

Tee hee.

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by Wabash » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:16 am

I watched part of the proceedings. Schiff laid out the case in a cool and calm demeanor.

The GOP on the other hand.

The main theme of GOP commentary is not really the President's innocence, it's denigrating the whole process. In short, the view taken by the defense (and its supporters in the gallery) is more short-term, and focused on the here and now. It's also more attuned to firing up the base, and not so much to reaching out to persuadables beyond the base.

The Republicans are taking their cues from Trump here. He is always laser-focused on the current crisis, without much planning for tomorrow, next week, or next month, and he is invariably concerned only about speaking to the base, everyone else be damned. The President did everything he could to supplement the efforts of his attorneys and his supporters in the Senate, going nuts on Twitter. I read somewhere that he set a new one day record of sending out 142 of them on Wednesday. In the midst of that was a single hour with 44 tweets, an average of one every 88 seconds.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by John Q. Public » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:55 pm

About 72% agreed that the trial “should allow witnesses with firsthand knowledge of the impeachment charges to testify,” including 84% of Democrats and 69% of Republicans. And 70% of the public, including 80% of Democrats and 73% of Republicans, said senators should “act as impartial jurors” during the trial.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1ZL33O

And I saw pointed out on Twitter that Senate subpoenas can't be appealed, since they're issued by the Chief Justice. And executive privilege has to be cited on a point-by-point basis and can be overruled.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by broman » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:19 pm

Reading up the history of Germany and Italy. The radical groups stayed on the fringes until the center right, traditionalist, conservative groups believed it was in their best interest to align themselves with the radical group. The problem is the radical group or leader never moderates. These Senators are making the same deal by nullification.

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by broman » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:56 pm

Frank Rich read my mind.....

new White House felonies still to come, any future repercussions here and abroad of Trump’s actions to date, or any previous foul deeds that have so far eluded public exposure. For all the technological quickening of the media pulse in this century, Trump’s collaborators will one day be viewed through the long lens of history like Nixon’s collaborators before them and the various fools, opportunists, and cowards who tried to appease Hitler in America, England, and France before that.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/ ... ators.html

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by Wabash » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:14 am

Schiff's presentation yesterday was masterful. Playing videos of two legal experts arguing that a president does not need to commit a crime to be impeachable. The two legal experts just so happen to be Alan Dershowitz, a member of the defense team, and Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), a member of the jury.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by crayegg » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:19 am

It's not hard to point out the Republican hypocrisy. It's blatant an obvious to anyone with a functioning brain.

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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Post by John Q. Public » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:54 pm

Don the Impaler's positions on impeachment:

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