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Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:37 pm
by ShiftyMutt
2020 is going to be a really really rough year. Really.
Trump is going to go lower and nastier than ever.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:42 am
by Vilepagan
Which should prove his undoing.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:03 am
by Wabash
"If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant."

What are the odds that Pelosi has read and understands Sun Tzu's Art of War and that Trump has not?

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:34 am
by ShiftyMutt
WHY aren’t votes for impeachment done by secret ballot? This is all a show of who will sacrifice integrity and country for their job.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:03 pm
by John Q. Public
Same reason as why Donald has so much power over some congresspeople - constituents. They have a right to know.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:05 pm
by John Q. Public

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:49 pm
by Wabash
Until McConnell puts forth details, Pelosi has no motivation to appoint House Managers.

Which is her prerogative via the Constitutional process.

Watching Trump go nuts over her lack of action is going to be fun.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:21 pm
by John Q. Public


Shouldn't it bother people that the entire second half of that tweet is 100%, F-on-a-civics-test incorrect? And that all of Donald's sycophants and all but maybe two of the talking heads on Fox keep repeating it endlessly? And there are kids hearing it who have teachers whose job it is to point out that it's incorrect? Or... do they? Or do the ones who do get accused of having an agenda?

Don't adults, much less teachers and journalists, regardless of political leaning, have a responsibility to point out that it's wrong?

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:46 pm
by Wabash
They do have a responsibility to point out that it is wrong. The problem is those kids have idiot parents who are in the deep end of an alternative reality pool.

Witness some of those who left this board. I'm betting more than one of them is parroting this narrative on their board.

#usefulidiots

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:10 am
by Wabash
Another point.

Back in my youth the intellectual leadership of the GOP consisted of individuals like Buckley, Rockefeller, and Goldwater.

They have been replaced by the likes of Hannity, Limbaugh, and Alex Jones.

Thoughtful policy has been replaced by a demagogic appeal to the fears of the base's lowest common denominator.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:54 pm
by broman
FOIA bringing some light on the Ukraine scandal and the aid freeze

This is an interesting event with Senator Johnson of Wisconsin

On Aug. 31, Senator Ron Johnson, Republican of Wisconsin, arranged a call with Mr. Trump. Mr. Johnson had been told days earlier by Mr. Sondland that the aid would be unblocked only if the Ukrainians gave Mr. Trump the investigations he wanted.

When Mr. Johnson asked Mr. Trump directly if the aid was contingent on getting a commitment to pursue the investigations, Mr. Johnson later said, Mr. Trump replied, amid a string of expletives, that there was no such demand and he would never do such a thing.

Around the same time, White House lawyers informed Mr. Trump about the whistle-blower’s complaint regarding his pressure campaign. It is not clear how much detail the lawyers provided the president about the details of the complaint, which noted the aid freeze.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/29/us/p ... -ios-share


If you read the letter, Johnson is trying to do what Sondland did in his first round of testimony. Trump didn't specifically say the aid was linked to the Biden investigations but obviously he was aware of the plot Rudy claimed to uncover.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:16 pm
by Wabash
The transcript clearly states;

"I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a
lot about it."

Soliciting help from a foreign power for political purposes is illegal.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:32 pm
by broman
Looking towards the Senate portion of impeachment, the letter shows that Senators Johnson and Portman had some knowledge of the scheme Trump was plotting with Guiliani. At the least it shows some GOP concern and confusion over what Trump was doing in regards to the aide freeze.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:14 pm
by Omar Bongo
An in-depth investigation by the NYT has uncovered details that the House investigation couldn't because of GOP stonewalling...

The Times article detailed actions by Mr. Mulvaney and other top White House aides, including John R. Bolton, the national security adviser at the time, and Mr. Blair, an adviser to Mr. Mulvaney. Those three men, as well as other Trump administration officials, have been barred by the White House from testifying before Congress despite subpoenas that have been issued.

The article described unreleased email exchanges involving Mr. Mulvaney and Mr. Blair, showing them aware that the president’s order would open him to criticism. The article also disclosed that Mr. Bolton, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper appealed to Mr. Trump in late August to release the aid, but he declined to do so.

And the article showed that the president reiterated his desire to keep the hold in place throughout the summer, as officials at the Office of Management and Budget — which had embraced the role of finding ways to make Mr. Trump’s policy demands a reality — searched for a legal justification to maintain the freeze. Officials at the agency had conversations at various points over the summer with the Office of Legal Counsel at the Justice Department and the White House Counsel’s Office about the existence of the hold, The Times found.

By September, lawyers at the Office of Management and Budget had begun drafting an argument that, under his commander-in-chief authority, Mr. Trump had the right to ignore the congressional mandates around the Ukraine aid based on existing circumstances that could affect diplomatic efforts, The Times found.

These events, which were not revealed during House testimony or in the House’s impeachment report, demonstrate why the Senate must have its own witnesses, Mr. Schumer said on Monday.

“This story makes the choice even clearer: Will the Senate hold a fair trial, or will it enable a cover-up?” he said. “President Trump, if you are so confident you did nothing wrong, why won’t you let your men testify?”

Mr. Schumer was one of several key congressional Democrats who pushed on Monday for the Senate to hear from witnesses like Mr. Mulvaney, Mr. Bolton, Mr. Blair and Michael Duffey, an official at the Office of Management and Budget."


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/30/us/p ... hment.html

It's pretty damn clear this is an extremely transparent attempt at a cover-up, but in today's hyper-partisan climate all you need is one more vote than the other guys to do whatever you damn well please, whether it's the right thing to do or not...

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:16 am
by Wabash
Not that it matters to idiot Trump supporters. The current bunch of unredacted Ukrain emails detail Trump's involvement.

They say that virtually the entire administration, and everyone at the Pentagon, opposed the freezing of funds to Ukraine. They believed it was detrimental to U.S. national interests, as that money was needed for Ukraine to push back against Russian aggression. They also feared the hold was illegal; a violation of Impoundment Control Act. The drama lingered over several months this summer, and any time anyone pushed back against the freeze, they were advised that it came from the President himself, and that he was not interested in their opinions.

When the impeachment trial finally begins, presumably sometime this month, it's likely that the Democrats have a few aces up their sleeves, and this could be one of them. The e-mails strengthen even further the case that Donald Trump abused his power. That they were buried, and then redacted, before finally seeing the light of day strengthens even further the case that Trump obstructed Congress. At this point, he would surely be convicted in any court in the land. He's very lucky that the Senate isn't a court.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:30 am
by John Q. Public
"...since my testimony is once again at issue, I have had to resolve the serious competing issues as best I could, based on careful consideration and study. I have concluded that, if the Senate issues a subpoena for my testimony, I am prepared to testify." --John Bolton

https://www.boltonpac.com/2020/01/state ... -r-bolton/

Your move, Ms. Pelosi.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:23 pm
by Omar Bongo
Pelosi? What's her move here?

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:09 pm
by John Q. Public
Well, there was talk about them re-opening their investigation "in light of new evidence." Especially considering Rubio's remark about only considering the evidence they're presented with.

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:25 pm
by Wabash
McConnell is saying he has the votes to start the trial without the impeachment articles. How does that work?

Re: The Trump Impeachment Inquiry

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:29 pm
by Omar Bongo
Where did you get that info? Here's what I found:

5:17 PM ET, Tue January 7, 2020

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Tuesday that he has the votes to set the ground rules of the impeachment trial for President Donald Trump -- without Democrats' support.

McConnell made clear he had no plans to move forward on a trial until the two articles of impeachment are sent to the Senate, as he has said publicly.

https://us.cnn.com/2020/01/07/politics/ ... index.html