He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Hanna
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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by Hanna » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:42 pm

Did not say that Sanders is a strongman, only that he admires them. Castro, Maduro, Stalin

Hanna
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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by Hanna » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:52 pm

Yes, they develop medications to make money. This is human nature. Do you think that Edison, or Steve Job or others develop new products to make other people happy? No. Profit motivates innovation. If you do not realize this I am sure that the close Jr. college can offer Economic 101.

Yes, many are lucky. Many work for corporations. And like the benefits. Why, do you think, so many like their employer provided insurance over the pie in the sky Medicare for all? But, as I say, nice for Sanders and for Warren - both, by the way, are millionaires to scoff at corporations when they, and their spouses, have lived in academia and in the Senate. Wisconsin, of course, produced Joe McCarthy and voted for Trump and seems to be on the way to doing so again.

At the end, it does not matter. Trump and his campaign will run ads showing socialism at his all uglyness.

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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by Wabash » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:11 pm

And all the Sanders' campaign has to do is show Trump referring to Nazis as "fine people" juxtaposed with images of the death camps.
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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by John Q. Public » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:24 pm

Not really. That argument would only appeal to the people who are already on board. Much better to argue jobs, pay raises and medical care, especially 6 to 8 months from now.
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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by Omar Bongo » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:16 pm

Vilepagan wrote:Are the corrupt pharmaceutical companies developing this vaccine so they can make money? Or because there's a desperate need?
Are you serious? You think they're in business for purely altruistic reasons?

Everyone here seems to be ignoring the fact that there is no such thing as "socialism", per se, period, end of story. State Socialism? Economic Socialism? Philosophic? There are as many styles, variations and blends as there are fish in the sea.

Socialist planned economy
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Socialist ideologies
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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by John Q. Public » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:50 pm

Exactly. Not even Capitalism is a one-size-fits-all term.
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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by Vilepagan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:00 am

Hanna wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:52 pm
Yes, they develop medications to make money. This is human nature. Do you think that Edison, or Steve Job or others develop new products to make other people happy? No.
Thank you for stating the obvious.
Profit motivates innovation. If you do not realize this I am sure that the close Jr. college can offer Economic 101.
No kidding? Really? who knew? The problem seems to be that this is the limit of your understanding. You don't seem to be able to envision any other motive for "innovation" or see any way for companies in socialistic economies to make money. Perhaps if you looked at any of the companies JQP mentioned in his post you'd graduate beyond Econ 101.
Yes, many are lucky. Many work for corporations. And like the benefits. Why, do you think, so many like their employer provided insurance over the pie in the sky Medicare for all?
Why is medicare for all "pie-in-the-sky"? If socialist countries can do it and we can't, where's the advantage for our way of doing things?
But, as I say, nice for Sanders and for Warren - both, by the way, are millionaires to scoff at corporations when they, and their spouses, have lived in academia and in the Senate.
And the fact that you have all the health insurance you need or want is nice for you...is that why you scoff at those who don't have health insurance?
Wisconsin, of course, produced Joe McCarthy and voted for Trump and seems to be on the way to doing so again.
I'm sure you are trying to make a point but I'm damned if i know what it might be...
At the end, it does not matter. Trump and his campaign will run ads showing socialism at his all uglyness.
Yes, but some of us will recognize them for what they are.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by Vilepagan » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:05 am

Omar Bongo wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:16 pm
Are you serious?
Yes, are you?
You think they're in business for purely altruistic reasons?
No Omar, I think that using the coronavirus vaccine as an example of "innovation" is absurd. This is not normal market forces at work is it? No. It's a public health crisis, and to use it as some kind of example of our economy at work is just plain...wrong.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by Hanna » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:09 am

Well, Sanders is now in retreat. This is all that matters.

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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:04 am

Hanna wrote: You think they're in business for purely altruistic reasons?
Nowadays, maybe, but goodwill can go an awful long way. Jonas Salk famously didn't patent his polio vaccine but his institute and his house in La Jolla tell me he did just fine without it.

And I'd think that you of all people would know that the people doing the actual work do it out of dedication and intellectual curiosity, and in many cases will only get a bullet point on their resumes for all their hard work.

In related news, worker bees at state-funded UC Riverside say they've isolated a protein that might lead to a treatment for COVID-19. Of course, whoever makes any treatment will make a killing on it but whoever made the discovery will likely only get a paycheck.
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Re: He is not a liberal, he's the end of liberalism - interesting perspective from... David Brooks

Post by Wabash » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:25 pm

John Q. Public wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:04 am
Nowadays, maybe, but goodwill can go an awful long way. Jonas Salk famously didn't patent his polio vaccine but his institute and his house in La Jolla tell me he did just fine without it.
In all fairness. Salk didn't have to put up a billion dollars or more to bring his vaccine to market. Which is a typical R & D amount for drug companies now.

Researching this topic somewhat. Two things that could be done immediately to bring down drug prices.

1. Start the patent clock AFTER FDA approval.
2. Eliminate the middlemen group called the PBMs.

For some reason there is no desire to do either one.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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