Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

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Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Tommy Tar » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:34 am

I know it's early, but so far I read. Good weather, descended rapidly for eight minutes with no mayday or any radio contact. It must have been 8 long minutes of pure hell.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Parrotpaul » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:43 am

Unless the passengers and crew were not aware they were doing what they were doing? If there were no engines, and he thought he could take it down a little to relight the engines....oops!

I can't imagine the horror f riding that one down with any knowledge the plane was fricked.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Troglodyte » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:51 pm

Word is that the black box they recovered shows a controlled decent with full power.. LINK LINK
The Plane disintegrated upon impact. No survivors.. Germany and Spain both are trying hard to keep rumors of terrorism from spreading.
Of course the usual wackos are claiming credit.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Zebra » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:02 am

Where is this "word" coming from Trog. I have a ex-colleague (NTSB) that is there now working with Airbus, French and Germans and he indicated the box needs to be reconstituted to be able to pull any data. You been watching MSNBC again? :shrug:

The "word" people are probably mistaking it with the radar tracking and sat programs.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:14 am

A headline I saw said *part* of the second black box has been found. Aren't those made to withstand quite a few g's?
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Troglodyte » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:17 am

The word did come from the ATC.. They watched it descend from 30,000 feet to 6,000 feet rapidly on radar.
It traveled in a straight line without change of course or speed.. Pretty sure the black box will confirm that.
The European NTSB is working on the cockpit voice recorder to find out why... :wink:
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Troglodyte » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:18 am

John, the "sudden stop" exerts many times a few Gs..
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Zebra » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:53 pm

Not disputing what ATC said they saw on their scopes. I used to be one and I saw lots of things on radar that didn't make any sense. ATC also said there was an emergency until they had to explain it was they, ATC, that called the emergency. European NTSB? They have the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)which is like our FAA, buncha do-nothings. Each country has their own investigatory agencies but they can and usually work together, unless fingers are going to be pointed, then it's every man for himself out there. I worked with the Dutch on the El Al Flight 1862 crash at Schiphol Airport in 1992. And yea, quite a few g's ... most CVR and FDR's are rated at 3400 g's ... whoa!!
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Troglodyte » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:48 pm

UH OH1! starting to sound hinkey...

Pilot locked out of cockpit before Germanwings crash
Published Bangkok Post: 26 Mar 2015 at 09:45• WRITER: AFP LINK

PARIS - One of the two pilots on a doomed Germanwings flight was locked out of the cockpit before the plane crashed in the French Alps, killing 150 people, a source close to the investigation told AFP Thursday.
Cockpit recordings recovered from the crash site indicated one of the seats was pushed back and the door opened and closed, followed by the sound of knocking, said the source, adding "there was no more conversation from that point until the crash".
The source said an alarm indicating the proximity of the ground could be heard before the impact.
The recording showed the pilots speaking normally and in German at the start of Flight 4U9525 early Tuesday. The source could not say if it was the captain or the first officer who had left the cockpit.
The cockpit voice recorder was found late Tuesday, several hours after the crash of the budget flight from Barcelona to Duesseldorf, and the data analysed Wednesday afternoon.
The Airbus A320 suddenly began a fatal eight-minute descent shortly after reaching cruising altitude.
No distress signal was sent and the crew failed to respond to desperate attempts at contact from ground control.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Zebra » Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:03 am

Yup .. sadly, it looks like another case of pilot murder. :(
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Troglodyte
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Troglodyte » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:57 am

One consolation is at least the co-pilot wasn't shouting "Allahu Akbar". That should dampen the Islamic terrorist rumor, and belie all the false claims by the wannabes.. Simply suicide by plane with 150 unwilling victims.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Parrotpaul » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:16 am

Sorry, Trog...I can't buy your argument. I would venture people who commit suicide don't generally take a whole bunch of people with them. If a pilot wanted to commit suicide, there are private planes that he could use to end his life. I would venture his primary goal was something other than his own suicide, but he obviously knew he wouldn't survive the crash. This sounds way too much like a purposeful act meant to kill people or make a statement. He was willing to die in order to succeed. Sounds like most sworn military personnel including Americans. For the good of the cause.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by crayegg » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:21 am

I doubt the lack of shouting Allahu Akbar is much consolation to the families of the victims.

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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Troglodyte » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:35 pm

Sorry Paul, Suicide by airliner may be rare, but it happens. Right here in California we've had at least two.
Pacific Southwest Airlines flight 1771 on December 7, 1987, Pacific Air Lines Flight 773 on May 7, 1964 Those were not caused by the pilot, but had the same results. Here are 5 more the pilot caused. LINK
There seems to be an increasing number of suicides that want to take others with them, get their names in the papers and national TV, and be talked about long after their deaths. Columbine, The Boston marathon, Sandy Hook school. There's been a rash of others who kill several people before they commit suicide, or fail to get the job done. You would have to buy those arguments...
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Parrotpaul » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:47 pm

Is their primary goal to commit suicide, or is it to make a statement they are willing to die to make? Suicide bombers generally aren't depressed people who want to end their life because there is no hope. Columbine....I suspect he planned to end his life, but I don't think that was his primary purpose for doing what he did. Who committed suicide at the Boston Marathon?

Maybe it's some baddie on Reddington's Black list who every six or seven months will grab a pilot and tell the pilot if he doesn't crash XYZ airplane into a mountain or into the sea...the China sea maybe like the Indonesian ghost plane, or he will execute every known member of the pilot's family....or maybe Hezbollah, or ISIL, or Al Qaeda did it using the same scenario...the plot thickens.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Troglodyte » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:35 am

Kinda hard to question someone about their motives after they commit suicide, Paul. Unless they leave a suicide note, which is rare. Most suicides are a solitary affair, a self punishment if you will. Others seem to be a case of "If I'm going I'll take a bunch of you bastards with me (blaming others for making them do it.)" and getting recognition from the media. "Good bye, cruel world and screw you."
The case of the Islamic suicide bombers is quite different. They leave videos and letters for their families and treat it as a religious experience, kinda like being baptized. They happily go off to meet their 21 virgins (May they all have a case of the clap.) The family is happy for them and the money the terrorist organization awards the family for their sacrificial offering.

In the case of the pilot, new info is coming out.

Pilot of doomed plane 'hid illness'
Published Bangkok Post: 27 Mar 2015 at 20:59 LINK

MONTABAUR, GERMANY —Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz appears to have hidden evidence of an illness from his employers, including having been excused by a doctor from work the day he crashed a passenger plane into a mountain.
Prosecutors didn't say what type of illness — mental or physical — Lubitz may have been suffering from.
Prosecutor's spokesman Ralf Herrenbrueck said in a written statement that torn-up sick notes for the day of the crash "support the current preliminary assessment that the deceased hid his illness from his employer and colleagues".
German news media painted a picture of a man with a history of depression who had received psychological treatment, and who may have been set off by a falling out with his girlfriend.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Zebra » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:20 pm

It's pilot murder not suicide. Guy coulda just slit his own wrists or ate a bullet if suicide was his motive. Same with the bombers, it's murder .. mass murder.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by not4u13 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:51 pm

Murder, yes. But was there another motive? An agenda? Perhaps oriented toward terrorism? Maybe he just wanted to "go down with the ship". It would be next to impossible to do this on a commercial jetliner without any passengers. People who commit suicide because they are depressed or unhappy aren't thinking straight to start with. That is the whole problem with severe depression. If this person was severly depressed due to the medical condition he was hiding (or that this was the medical condition he was hiding), then he doesn't really need any other motive than he just wants to be done with life. That he is taking other people with him may not have been of any consequence.

Suicide bombers, on the other hand, are often blowing themselves up for a very different, very unselfish, reason. They believe they are advancing some sort of agenda for the greater good. They leave behind a legacy and some sort of message through their actions.

This guy left no such message that can be easily or readily seen at this point. Seems unlikely that he would be a terrorist if he isn't also sending some sort of message.
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Troglodyte » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:53 pm

News just heard. No link yet. The authorities found a torn up doctor's note in the co-pilot's house dated that day that said he was unfit to fly. The breakup with his girl frie4nd, then the doctor side lining him must have been the triggers. "Unfit to fly?? I'll show you bastards and you too bitch"..
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Re: Germanwings says jet plunged for eight minutes.

Post by Parrotpaul » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:48 am

This NPR story contends Lubitz had a mission other than suicide....


The co-pilot who deliberately downed an airliner over the French Alps this week, killing all 150 aboard, had told a girlfriend sometime last year that he would "do something" that would make people remember his name, a German newspaper reports.

Andreas Lubitz, 27, who reportedly had hidden a note declaring him medically unfit to fly on the day he crashed the Germanwings A320, told a former girlfriend and flight attendant, identified by Bild only as "Mary W." that: "One day I will do something that will change the whole system, and then all will know my name and remember it."


<snip>

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... remembered
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