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Syria?

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:34 pm
by Professor Fate
No one appears to be discussing this. Can it be that everyone here is unsure about what to do about the gas attacks?

I have been a hawk most of the time, in the past. But I'm having trouble with this one. Beside the fact that there does not seem to be a side we can support there (with the possible exception of the Kurds), I'm concerned with how can we be sure who is responsible for the gas attacks. I am not even convinced that they happened at all.

A few weeks ago, while I was giving Fordama a failing grade regarding his take on what happened in Libya, I ran across some disturbing things about that situation in 2011. What particularly bothered me, was the fact that NATO and other forces joined the battle against Gaddafi, based in a large part on reports of atrocities committed by his regime. The truth of the matter, is that both sides were guilty of atrocities. But...this sentence caught my eye:

"In June 2011, a more detailed investigation by Amnesty International found that many of the allegations against Gaddafi and the Libyan state turned out to be false or to lack any credible evidence, saying that rebels at times appeared to have knowingly made false claims or manufactured evidence." - Cockburn, Patrick (24 June 2011). "Amnesty questions claim that Gaddafi ordered rape as weapon of war". The Independent. London. Retrieved 26 June 2011.

If the evidence turns out to be clear that Assad's forces are the guilty ones, then I welcome the military action that it appears will come from a coalition of nations. But we need to be sure we aren't being played by the rebels producing some theater for the media. The media was manipulated by the Libyan rebels...is it happening again?

What does everyone think? It seems like the latest attack was strategically not in Assad's interests, considering the fact that Trump floated the idea of leaving Syria. That would make it logical that the opposite is true...that it would be in the strategic interest of the rebels that this gas attack should occur (or appear to occur), in order to keep the Americans in it.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:12 pm
by Wabash
Apparently we have no fiscal issues if we can afford to pick another fight.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:30 pm
by broman
Image

The Kurds were one of the reasons we beat back ISIS in Iraq ans Syria. Any Kurdish autonomy creates conflict with our NATO "ally" Turkey. Attack Assad and you help ISIS. Stay the hell out......

Re: Syria?

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:41 pm
by broman
meanwhile....
FALLOUT FROM THE TURKEY-IRAN-RUSSIA MEETING
Russian President Vladimir Putin, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan met in Ankara for their second trilateral meeting on Syria. They see themselves as the “three guarantor states of the ceasefire in Syria,” according to Sputnik media, and they have been participating in talks in Astana relating to “reconciliation.”
http://www.jpost.com/International/Fall ... ing-549022

Re: Syria?

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:44 am
by Fordama
GHW Bush, Clinton, and now Trump are royally screwing the Kurds. W Bush and Obama did them some favors, at least.

But generally, of all the crap going on in that region, our treatment of the Kurds has been a national disgrace.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:55 am
by Professor Fate
How so? It's my understanding that it's the Kurds we've been defending all along, first from Saddam, and more recently from Turkey and the Syrians.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:02 am
by Fordama
We did not protect the Kurds as we should have--especially after GHW Bush encouraged them to rebel during the 1st Gulf War, but then we didn't back their rebellion, and Hussein brutally struck back. Then we did enforce no-flay zones later.

Clinton and W Bush protected them but did not arm them very well because we're worried about stepping on Turkey's toes. Obama supplied arms and training to Kurds in Iraq to help fight ISIS. He was then going to do the same for Syrian Kurds.

But Trump nixed that program. And now the Turks are attacking the Kurds as well as Assad.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:11 am
by Professor Fate
Yeah, the Kurdish/Turkish thing is a tightrope act.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:19 am
by Professor Fate
French President Macron says he has proof that the Assad forces are behind the most recent chemical weapons attack on the rebels.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:23 am
by seeinred
Personally, I do not doubt the legitimacy of the claims that Asad's regime chemically attacked his people, but hopefully that confirmation of "proof" didn't come from the same dudes who told the US that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD's!!!
:shock:

Re: Syria?

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:45 am
by John Q. Public
This is precisely the type of situation the UN was conceived to deal with. Unfortunately, the way it was designed, it's powerless to do anything about it.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:02 pm
by Professor Fate
Agreed. I assume you are referring to the fact that Russia can veto any action. So we have to build a coalition. It sounds like France, Britain, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE? Very big news that Britain is sending submarines to the area. I would assume the message there is to any Russian naval forces to think twice about getting involved.

Don't count out Israel having a role also.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:58 pm
by broman
Trump is going live in a few minutes.... Star Date 4/13/18 5:58

Re: Syria?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:35 am
by Wabash
Given that Trump campaigned on an isolationist platform this looks more like a "Wag the Dog" attempt at distraction.

Believing that Trump cares about the oppressed peoples of Syria after banning their refugees from coming here strikes me as disingenuous.

Bill Maher summed it up perfectly last night. We should call this what it is. Operation Desert Stormy.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:14 am
by John Q. Public


#Groan

Re: Syria?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:19 am
by Parrotpaul
It's like deja vu all over again. (Credit...Yogi)

Re: Syria?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:13 pm
by Professor Fate
Wabash wrote:
Believing that Trump cares about the oppressed peoples of Syria after banning their refugees from coming here strikes me as disingenuous.
For you to suggest that anyone who opposes massive numbers of immigrants, can not also care about babies, children, and grannies, getting gassed is pathetic.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:23 pm
by broman
Trump made it a campaign promise to stop Syrian refugees from coming to the United States and would send back the ones who were already here. Remember the St. Louis!!!


Anyway, It might be time for you to seek some help for turning every comment about Trump into your own personal offense.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:29 pm
by Wabash
Professor Fate wrote:For you to suggest that anyone who opposes massive numbers of immigrants, can not also care about babies, children, and grannies, getting gassed is pathetic.
I'm not a president who made a lot of statements about not being involved in Syria.

Trump did.

Re: Syria?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:32 pm
by Professor Fate
And if you were, and then saw what was going on with the gassings, you would do what? Nothing?