Democrat gloom and doom

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Troglodyte
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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by Troglodyte » Sun May 15, 2011 9:08 am

Fordama wrote:Unfortunately there are some boobs who have taken him seriously. You can't just ignore that and pretend that it didn't happen. Trump saw a vacuum and jumped in to fill it with hot air.
Appears that more boobs took Obama seriously. :ROFL: What a joke that turned out to be. Obama created the vacuum that Trump thinks he can fill.
Wait a few more months until the serious GOP conteners get into gear. Meanwhile, what a laugh it would be if Obama gets bested by a Trump Palin ticket,
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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by Fordama » Sun May 15, 2011 9:18 am

Troglodyte wrote: Appears that more boobs took Obama seriously. :ROFL: What a joke that turned out to be. Obama created the vacuum that Trump thinks he can fill.
Yeah, Obama caused a vacuum in Republican leadership. That makes a whole lot of sense.

Try to keep up with the conversation, sailor.

Fordama
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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by GOODave » Mon May 16, 2011 4:12 am

Fordama wrote: You pretty much have that ass-backwards. The fact that Trump got any traction shows that the Republicans had nothing to put up any better.

Now hopefully in a year someone with some integrity and a triple-digit IQ will emerge, but right now we aren't seeing it.

Fordama
I think you are underestimating the current crop of hopefuls and I hope your underestimation is characteristic of the left.

To that end, I won't "bore" you with some of the creds I'm seeing in the current hopefuls and expecteds...

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by Fordama » Mon May 16, 2011 5:05 am

GOODave wrote: I think you are underestimating the current crop of hopefuls and I hope your underestimation is characteristic of the left.
Then you'd be wrong. Traction right now is publicity, and Trump has been the game because nobody else has had anything to say.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by GOODave » Mon May 16, 2011 6:01 am

Fordama wrote:Then you'd be wrong. Traction right now is publicity, and Trump has been the game because nobody else has had anything to say.

Fordama
Nobody else has really announced yet, have they? Can't really start campaigning until they are actually in the race...

I found this list on CNN recently: It's a little outdated but should still be useful:
  1. Newt Gingrich: Just announced;
  2. Ron Paul: Just announced;
  3. Rick Santorum: Will announce, but is still equivocating, still calling it a "potential run for the presidency."
  4. Tim Pawlenty: Will announce, but still being coy;
  5. Mitt Romney: Hasn't announced, per se, but who're we kidding?
  6. Buddy Roemer: Who?
  7. Herman Cain: Who? But I like what I've heard, just haven't heard much;
  8. Gary Johnson: One of the first in ... will also be one of the first out;
  9. John Huntsman: Not a SNOWBALL'S chance with the word "Obama" on his resume;
  10. Mike Huckabee: Announced he won't run;
  11. Mitch Daniels: Still not committing (yet);
  12. Sarah Palin: (Please, no!)
  13. Michele Bachman: A better choice than Palin;
  14. Chris Christie: Not announced, but others are trying to persuade;
  15. Rudy Giuliani: Won't make it far;
  16. Rick Perry: Not announced, but would make it an interesting race;
  17. Bobby Jindal: I think "gun shy." Not announced yet.
  18. Trump: Give me a break
So there are some promising contenders in that pack and some who will (and should) fall out pretty quickly.

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by slowyoroll » Mon May 16, 2011 7:05 am

GOODave wrote: Nobody else has really announced yet, have they? Can't really start campaigning until they are actually in the race...

I found this list on CNN recently: It's a little outdated but should still be useful:
  1. Newt Gingrich: Just announced;
  2. Ron Paul: Just announced;
  3. Rick Santorum: Will announce, but is still equivocating, still calling it a "potential run for the presidency."
  4. Tim Pawlenty: Will announce, but still being coy;
  5. Mitt Romney: Hasn't announced, per se, but who're we kidding?
  6. Buddy Roemer: Who?
  7. Herman Cain: Who? But I like what I've heard, just haven't heard much;
  8. Gary Johnson: One of the first in ... will also be one of the first out;
  9. John Huntsman: Not a SNOWBALL'S chance with the word "Obama" on his resume;
  10. Mike Huckabee: Announced he won't run;
  11. Mitch Daniels: Still not committing (yet);
  12. Sarah Palin: (Please, no!)
  13. Michele Bachman: A better choice than Palin;
  14. Chris Christie: Not announced, but others are trying to persuade;
  15. Rudy Giuliani: Won't make it far;
  16. Rick Perry: Not announced, but would make it an interesting race;
  17. Bobby Jindal: I think "gun shy." Not announced yet.
  18. Trump: Give me a break
So there are some promising contenders in that pack and some who will (and should) fall out pretty quickly.
This is a sad looking list..sorry
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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by Fordama » Mon May 16, 2011 7:22 am

GOODave wrote: Nobody else has really announced yet, have they? Can't really start campaigning until they are actually in the race...

I found this list on CNN recently: It's a little outdated but should still be useful:
  1. Newt Gingrich: Just announced; DOA, but could make things interesting.
  2. Ron Paul: Just announced; Everyone loves him, few will vote for him.
  3. Rick Santorum: Will announce, but is still equivocating, still calling it a "potential run for the presidency." A nutjob.
  4. Tim Pawlenty: Will announce, but still being coy; Hard to tell the difference from when he's coy to when he's bland.
  5. Mitt Romney: Hasn't announced, per se, but who're we kidding? True dat.
  6. Buddy Roemer: Who? I'm too lazy to google this morning.
  7. Herman Cain: Who? But I like what I've heard, just haven't heard much; Captain Platitude.
  8. Gary Johnson: One of the first in ... will also be one of the first out; We hardly knew ye.
  9. John Huntsman: Not a SNOWBALL'S chance with the word "Obama" on his resume;Another "who?" for the public.
  10. Mike Huckabee: Announced he won't run; Yes, but tomorrow is another day.
  11. Mitch Daniels: Still not committing (yet); Ah, Bush's budget guy who told us that invading Iraq was going to cost about $50billion. He was off just a tad.
  12. Sarah Palin: (Please, no!) I want to see her and Ron Paul debate.
  13. Michele Bachman: A better choice than Palin; That's a low bar!
  14. Chris Christie: Not announced, but others are trying to persuade; Has stated he doesn't want to run. Or at least jog.
  15. Rudy Giuliani: Won't make it far; But the rally cries are so great--Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!
  16. Rick Perry: Not announced, but would make it an interesting race;George W II?
  17. Bobby Jindal: I think "gun shy." Not announced yet. I think he's simply Veep material.
  18. Trump: Give me a break: He'll buy his own break. Until someone interesting steps up we get to hear him yack. My guess is that this whole "candidacy" is about him making.
So there are some promising contenders in that pack and some who will (and should) fall out pretty quickly.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by Troglodyte » Mon May 16, 2011 7:52 am

Fordama wrote: Yeah, Obama caused a vacuum in Republican leadership. That makes a whole lot of sense.

Try to keep up with the conversation, sailor.

Fordama
Sheesh, Fraudy.. Good attempt to turn things around to save your hero.. But, as usual, you missed
Obama caused the vacuum in the white house, not the GOP. That's why the B team thinks they have a shot.
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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by Fordama » Mon May 16, 2011 7:54 am

Troglodyte wrote: Sheesh, Fraudy.. Good attempt to turn things around to save your hero..
What the hell does Joe Montana have to do with this thread? In the meantime, I just wanted to nicely point out that you weren't paying attention to what I was talking about.

I guess sometimes manners just get in the way.

Fordama
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by blacklib » Mon May 16, 2011 7:54 am

GOODave wrote: Nobody else has really announced yet, have they? Can't really start campaigning until they are actually in the race...

I found this list on CNN recently: It's a little outdated but should still be useful:
  1. Newt Gingrich: Just announced;
  2. Ron Paul: Just announced;
  3. Rick Santorum: Will announce, but is still equivocating, still calling it a "potential run for the presidency."
  4. Tim Pawlenty: Will announce, but still being coy;
  5. Mitt Romney: Hasn't announced, per se, but who're we kidding?
  6. Buddy Roemer: Who?
  7. Herman Cain: Who? But I like what I've heard, just haven't heard much;
  8. Gary Johnson: One of the first in ... will also be one of the first out;
  9. John Huntsman: Not a SNOWBALL'S chance with the word "Obama" on his resume;
  10. Mike Huckabee: Announced he won't run;
  11. Mitch Daniels: Still not committing (yet);
  12. Sarah Palin: (Please, no!)
  13. Michele Bachman: A better choice than Palin;
  14. Chris Christie: Not announced, but others are trying to persuade;
  15. Rudy Giuliani: Won't make it far;
  16. Rick Perry: Not announced, but would make it an interesting race;
  17. Bobby Jindal: I think "gun shy." Not announced yet.
  18. Trump: Give me a break
So there are some promising contenders in that pack and some who will (and should) fall out pretty quickly.
Who is going to hold the tea party and appeal to independents at the same time? Something really bad has to happen under Obamas watch for those to sides to come together.

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by blacklib » Mon May 16, 2011 7:55 am

Fordama wrote:What the hell does Joe Montana have to do with this thread? In the meantime, I just wanted to nicely point out that you weren't paying attention to what I was talking about.

I guess sometimes manners just get in the way.

Fordama
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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by John Q. Public » Mon May 16, 2011 8:25 am

slowyoroll wrote: This is a sad looking list..sorry
I agree. At least so far, Gingrich is the only one who could win the national election. I think Paul is too Libertarian to win, Romney's too milquetoast (and RomneyCare is too easy of a target) and Bachman could get the nomination on the teabag vote but would get slaughtered in the national. Gingrich, Paul and Bachman are the only ones I can see anybody getting excited about and I think only Gingrich would stand a chance in the general election.

And #18 is just a joke. At least Pat Paulsen was honest about his candidacy just being for laughs.
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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by GOODave » Mon May 16, 2011 9:19 am

Fordama wrote:
  1. Newt Gingrich: Just announced; DOA, but could make things interesting.
    Because of his poor personal life choices? Weren't you the guys who said Clintoon's personal life was none of our business?
  2. Ron Paul: Just announced; Everyone loves him, few will vote for him.Agreed. and I think even he realizes that. One has to wonder, then, why he's involved: Could be for something OTHER than being president
  3. Rick Santorum: Will announce, but is still equivocating, still calling it a "potential run for the presidency." A nutjob.Curious statement, but I've only heard him speak once. Why do you proclaim him a nutjob?
  4. Tim Pawlenty: Will announce, but still being coy; Hard to tell the difference from when he's coy to when he's bland."bland" could be good. Do you write him off for that?
  5. Mitt Romney: Hasn't announced, per se, but who're we kidding? True dat.I consider him the front runner at this point
  6. Buddy Roemer: Who? I'm too lazy to google this morning.Former governor of LA and looks like a large white old guy from the good ol' boys.
  7. Herman Cain: Who? But I like what I've heard, just haven't heard much; Captain Platitude.Agreed, so far. But, then, that is all that has been called for so far... wait and see I will
  8. Gary Johnson: One of the first in ... will also be one of the first out; We hardly knew ye.and sarcely wanted to, either
  9. John Huntsman: Not a SNOWBALL'S chance with the word "Obama" on his resume;Another "who?" for the public.Agreed ... but when they find out, they won't get past the word "Obama" on his resume...although I don't recall why he left
  10. Mike Huckabee: Announced he won't run; Yes, but tomorrow is another day.Interesting you should say that... I thought something similar as I heard his withdrawal: "Well, yeah, but you didn't rule out a subsequent consideration of "new" information..."
  11. Mitch Daniels: Still not committing (yet); Ah, Bush's budget guy who told us that invading Iraq was going to cost about $50billion. He was off just a tad. :shrug: I have no opinion on him either way
  12. Sarah Palin: (Please, no!) I want to see her and Ron Paul debate.I don't ... the only way they'd debate is if she gets in the race. I don't want to see that.
  13. Michele Bachman: A better choice than Palin; That's a low bar!Low ... but accurate
  14. Chris Christie: Not announced, but others are trying to persuade; Has stated he doesn't want to run. Or at least jog.Yes he has ... hence the others trying to persuade him. Door isn't completely closed yet, as far as I can see
  15. Rudy Giuliani: Won't make it far; But the rally cries are so great--Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!Your channeling the movie by that same name (which had nothing to do with New York)
  16. Rick Perry: Not announced, but would make it an interesting race;George W II?HA! I thought something similar ... an old, former Texas governor. I have to wonder why?
  17. Bobby Jindal: I think "gun shy." Not announced yet. I think he's simply Veep material.Could be. He really tanked his first opportunity (the "Republican response") so maybe he needs a little seasoning
  18. Trump: Give me a break: He'll buy his own break. Until someone interesting steps up we get to hear him yack. My guess is that this whole "candidacy" is about him making.I really do think there is something OTHER than a passion to be president: Possibly to have the limelight again, who knows.

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by GOODave » Mon May 16, 2011 9:24 am

slowyoroll wrote:
This is a sad looking list..sorry
What a surprise you should say something like that.

:lol:

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by GOODave » Mon May 16, 2011 9:31 am

blacklib wrote:
Who is going to hold the tea party and appeal to independents at the same time? Something really bad has to happen under Obamas watch for those to sides to come together.
IT's happening all the time, 'lib...

However, there are some different scenarios that could answer your question:
  • The Tea Party finds out it is not as influential as it believes it is and is content to influence others in the GOP;
  • The Tea Party believes it is more influential than it is and splits from the GOP (which would mean disaster for both ends);
  • Obama is out of "OBL" hat tricks to spike his popularity, continues to plummet in the polls and even Donald Trump can beat him.
  • One or more of the contenders above (lets use Michele Bachman as an example) already has the Tea Party aligned and, now, only needs to find some common ground with the independents.
There are others, to be sure. I tend to agree with JQP about only three would generate any excitement, but I would add Mitt Romney to his list.

Seems to me Romney already has a lot of the Tea Party in alignment and, now, is focusing on the independents with is defense of the Healthcare deal he put together while he was governor.

Bottom line, though, is it is still roughly 18 months until the election and a LOT can happen in 18 months: I've heard tales that a relatively unknown senator from a small and corrupt state like Illinois can get elected in 18 months...

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by blacklib » Mon May 16, 2011 10:00 am

GOODave wrote: IT's happening all the time, 'lib...

However, there are some different scenarios that could answer your question:
  • The Tea Party finds out it is not as influential as it believes it is and is content to influence others in the GOP;-
  • The Tea Party believes it is more influential than it is and splits from the GOP (which would mean disaster for both ends);
  • Obama is out of "OBL" hat tricks to spike his popularity, continues to plummet in the polls and even Donald Trump can beat him.
  • One or more of the contenders above (lets use Michele Bachman as an example) already has the Tea Party aligned and, now, only needs to find some common ground with the independents.
There are others, to be sure. I tend to agree with JQP about only three would generate any excitement, but I would add Mitt Romney to his list.

Seems to me Romney already has a lot of the Tea Party in alignment and, now, is focusing on the independents with is defense of the Healthcare deal he put together while he was governor.

Bottom line, though, is it is still roughly 18 months until the election and a LOT can happen in 18 months: I've heard tales that a relatively unknown senator from a small and corrupt state like Illinois can get elected in 18 months...
When Obama gave that speech in 04 he was anointed as the next great Democrat. Hillary left the door open with her vote on the Iraq War and Obama run through it to the presidency. Nobody had the buzz or energy except for Palin. Something big has to happen in the economy or on the security front for the door to open.

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by GOODave » Mon May 16, 2011 10:04 am

blacklib wrote:
When Obama gave that speech in 04 he was anointed as the next great Democrat. Hillary left the door open with her vote on the Iraq War and Obama run through it to the presidency. Nobody had the buzz or energy except for Palin. Something big has to happen in the economy or on the security front for the door to open.
You don't seem to realize (or, at least, acknowledge) that Obama is staging "something big" all the time.

He got a temporary reprieve from his falling numbers by authorizing the mission to take out Osama... but that won't last because Americans have always been, "yeah, well what have you done for me lately" and even now he's already trying to defeat that spike by his comments on the border and his insistence that the debt ceiling must rise while being incapable or unwilling to negotiate with the Republican leadership.

His demise is inexhorable.

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by John Q. Public » Mon May 16, 2011 11:24 am

The thing that Gingrich has going for him is that he's the only one of them who doesn't seem to be afraid of the tea party. While the others have kowtowed to them, he's presented ideas that weren't as wacked as theirs but were acceptable to them. But his infidelities could be a problem with the Moral Majority types.

I'd prefer Romney if it were up to me. For all of his bluster and kowtowing right now, I would expect him to be more moderate and pragmatic once in office. Lackluster, but moderate and pragmatic - sort of a Gerry Ford kind of Presidency.
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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by GOODave » Mon May 16, 2011 11:35 am

John Q. Public wrote:The thing that Gingrich has going for him is that he's the only one of them who doesn't seem to be afraid of the tea party. While the others have kowtowed to them, he's presented ideas that weren't as wacked as theirs but were acceptable to them. But his infidelities could be a problem with the Moral Majority types.
Of course it is still early yet, but the only bluster I've heard about Gingrich's personal choices have been from the very left and some from the moderates.

I acknowledge it is a strange silence from those folks who had such a problem with Clintoon's indiscretion(s) but, by the same token, the smoke and fuss coming from the left is also a little strange since they were the ones DEFENDING Clintoon's choices...

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Re: Democrat gloom and doom

Post by blacklib » Mon May 16, 2011 12:04 pm

ne day after Newt Gingrich acknowledged his past support for requiring people to buy health insurance, the former House Speaker was careful to make clear that he was “completely opposed to the Obamacare mandate on individuals.”



“Well, I agree that all of us have a responsibility to pay — help pay for health care,” Gingrich responded. “And, I think that there are ways to do it that make most libertarians relatively happy. I’ve said consistently we ought to have some requirement that you either have health insurance or you post a bond.”

Host David Gregory pressed, “But that is the individual mandate, is it not?”

“It’s a variation on it,” Gingrich said.

The former congressman from Georgia has been on record for nearly two decades as supporting a requirement to purchase health insurance.

During the interview, Gregory played a 1993 clip in which Gingrich said, “I am for people, individuals — exactly like automobile insurance — individuals having health insurance and being required to have health insurance.”

During a 2006 speech to the Greater Detroit Area Health Council, the Detroit Free Press reported that he advocated that “Americans over a certain income level to buy health insurance or post a bond.”

As recent as in a 2007 op-ed in The Des Moines Register, Gingrich wrote that an "Personal responsibility extends to the purchase of health insurance. Citizens should not be able to cheat their neighbors by not buying insurance, particularly when they can afford it, and expect others to pay for their care when they need it.”

He added that an “individual mandate is an acceptable option only when the larger health care system has been fundamentally changed,” since it would be “unjust” to impose the requirement in a “broken and dysfunctional system."

Newt has some mo' problems

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