Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

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Notorious
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Notorious » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:06 pm

SoMelo wrote: No, I think you are jealous
When you're as awesome as I am, you don't get jealous trick.
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Omar Bongo
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Omar Bongo » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:11 pm

Notorious wrote:I still think the best answer was "Not enough information given"
I agree. If it's a blowout, raining hard, not much time left or something good on TV right after the game these would all affect the call.
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by SoMelo » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:12 pm

Notorious wrote: When you're as awesome as I am, you don't get jealous trick.
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edcoil
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by edcoil » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:18 pm

Originally I had B due to the forward progress but have seen 100's of runners bounced back only to run around the pile or tackles for mucho extra yards.

What you telling us is the ref's don't make the proper call enough on these judgement calls :shrug:

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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by oceanvue » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:21 pm

SoMelo wrote: Image
first the Babbling Brooke and now this
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by SoMelo » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:27 pm

oceanvue wrote:
first the Babbling Brooke and now this
It's a crazy week...

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Zebra
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Zebra » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:36 pm

edcoil wrote:Originally I had B due to the forward progress but have seen 100's of runners bounced back only to run around the pile or tackles for mucho extra yards.

What you telling us is the ref's don't make the proper call enough on these judgement calls :shrug:
Well, statistically we're always going to be 50-50 as far as spectators go on judgement calls anyway. I can't see it really getting any better than that unless I educate the masses.

If the runner bounces, or isn't wrapped, they can keep going. The rule states "is held so his forward progress is stopped" indicating the defense must have control.

Officials can and do miss this sometimes because of the reasons I gave before. You only have 2 of 5 officials looking for progress and we may be a little busy (or just little) to see the bang bangs on fumble/progress plays. What's important is the undertanding of how and why it's called when it is. When it isn't, you can smile and know or frown and know, depending which side you're on ... but you'll know.
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by LanceSterling » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:42 pm

Start flinging but remember, I’m here to help.
Quick whistles make for boring games :rockon:

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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by LanceSterling » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:49 pm

I
f the runner bounces, or isn't wrapped, they can keep going. The rule states "is held so his forward progress is stopped" indicating the defense must have control.
Your question didn't indicate "wrapped" fact is, you stated below his feet were "still" moving so the play continues.
"A1 is running up the middle when he is grabbed standing up by several team
B players at team A’s 45 yardline. A1 keeps his feet moving to try to break the
tackle. After the tacklers shove A1 one step backward,"
One step backwards does not indicate wrapped at all.

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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Notorious » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:03 pm

LanceSterling wrote:I

Your question didn't indicate "wrapped" fact is, you stated below his feet were "still" moving so the play continues.



One step backwards does not indicate wrapped at all.
"Trying to break the tackle" means he's wrapped and is moving backward. Momentum has stopped and swung the other way.
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Zebra » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:55 pm

LanceSterling wrote:I

Your question didn't indicate "wrapped" fact is, you stated below his feet were "still" moving so the play continues.



One step backwards does not indicate wrapped at all.
1 inch or 1 step constitutes losing forward progress if he is wrapped, grabbed (i know you get the picture) by "several team members". One on one may be a different story unless the guy is a picture perfect tackler. Quick whistles do make for a boring game, but it doesn't trump player safety ... it's a fine line.
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by UniDad » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:43 pm

Zebra wrote:I figured I better get this done before the season starts and they put a muzzle on me and thought it would be fun to start putting up some of our test questions that we have on our Summer Exam. Let's see how well some of you know the rules. I've already turned in my test so you won't be giving me the answers 8-[ ....

Here's the first question (A=offense/B=defense):

A's ball, 3rd and 6 at A38. A1 is running up the middle when he is grabbed standing up by several team
B players at team A’s 45 yardline. A1 keeps his feet moving to try to break the
tackle. After the tacklers shove A1 one step backward, B2 knocks the ball loose
from A1’s grasp. The whistle had not yet been blown when the ball became
loose. B3 recovers the ball at team A’s 42 yardline.

a. Five-yard penalty for delay on B2.
b. Team A’s ball at team A’s 45 yardline.
c. Team B’s ball at team A’s 42 yardline.


What say ye? Show your work ...
I knew there was going to be a "gotcha" in this question, but I answered 'C' anyway.

Even after your explanation, I still feel the answer should be 'C'.

Zebra, you say:
If the runner bounces, or isn't wrapped, they can keep going. The rule states "is held so his forward progress is stopped" indicating the defense must have control.
:-k

So, what you seem to be saying is: If something good happens to "A1" after being shoved one whole step(!) backward, then the crew will let the play continue. But if something bad happens to "A1" (like a fumble) after being shoved one whole step backward, the crew will (after the fact) say that the play stopped when "A1"'s forward progress was momentarily stopped.

There is nothing in the original scenario that indicates for certain that "the defense must have control", even after "B2" knocks the ball loose. "A1" may not have had control of the ball, but if his legs are still moving and he's still fighting, "one step back" does not constitute control by the defense.

This sounds like something even worse than a quick whistle. It is a non-whistle, retroactive stoppage of play while the players were still playing football. It would appear (to a cynical observer) to be one of those situations where the crew believes that the game revolves around them instead of the players. (I've seen that a few times over the years.)

As a player, coach, or fan on either side of the ball I would look upon "B" as a mistake.

And as someone who believes in absolute safety first, I don't buy the "safety" argument of answer "B". Quick whistle, maybe. No whistle, not so much.

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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Empire » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:28 pm

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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by RPW » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:33 am

Damn zebras are wrong on the field and in the forums.
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Buc Pride
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Buc Pride » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:42 am

RPW wrote:Damn zebras are wrong on the field and in the forums.
Do you think Ed Hochuli came up a little short here?


I liked it, although I still have not read the actual original post.

Pretty good idea, Blue
rent saw

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Zebra
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Zebra » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:20 am

This is question 22 on the Summer Exam, I didn't make it up. many of them are trick questions and you really have to read the wording of the question during testing. What you read is what we get to work with as far as information about the play. Let me tell you, this same discussion goes on at Officials meeting everyday. We can spend an hour discussing a call or no call. You will never get evereyone on board in interperting the rules, just as some interpert words here to mean different things depending on thier politics in other threads. When that happens, the Instructional staff tells you how you will call that play and why.

There are times there is a no whistle because the whistle doen't kill the play and the runner is obviously down ... we've had 3 or 4 plays go before a whistle was blown in some games.

Great points and discussions here guys. These are all things I learned when I put on the stripped shirt after coaching for 23 years. Talk about shock and awe. Like I said, I'm just 'splainin the rules and how and why we make the tough calls, not here to argue semantics and 'what ifs' and bad officials. Let me see what I can dig up for today's fun ...
Coach, you can call me a S.O.B. all you want. Just don't call me a little S.O.B. [-X

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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by not4u13 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:10 am

Love this! I agree forwardprogress progress is one of the most misunderstood things we see. It really is a judgement on what constitutes control. I didn't realize the whistle wasn't always blown but I did know you don't need a whistle for the play to be dead.
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Zebra
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Zebra » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:41 am

Here's the next one .. (A=Offense/B=Defense).

Team A uses a hurry-up offense as it quickly moves to its LOS.
WR A1, who is still in the game after running a pass pattern in the middle of the
field on the previous play, did not enter his team’s huddle and goes to a position
about a yard inside the sideline before the ready signal. At the snap, A1 goes
downfield and catches a pass. The covering official rules A1’s act was not an
attempt to deceive.

a. No problem.
b. A1 should be flagged for illegal formation.
c. A1 should be flagged for illegal substitution.


This is another call that either flank would have sole responsibilty to make the call. Show your work .... :cheers:
Coach, you can call me a S.O.B. all you want. Just don't call me a little S.O.B. [-X

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Buc Pride
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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Buc Pride » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:02 pm

hmmmm
rent saw

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Re: Zebra's Rule Question of the Day

Post by Buc Pride » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:04 pm

Pretty sure there is a rule about having to lineup inside the numbers.

so "B"
rent saw

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