So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

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Wabash
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So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:17 am

Link

Excerpt:
IRS data suggests that, globally, U.S. nonfinancial companies hold at least three times more cash and other liquid assets than the Federal Reserve reports, idle money that could be creating jobs, funding dividends or even paying a stiff federal penalty tax for hoarding corporate cash.

The Fed's latest Flow of Funds report showed that U.S. nonfinancial companies held $1.7 trillion in liquid assets at the end of March. But newly released IRS figures show that in 2009 these companies held $4.8 trillion in liquid assets, which equals $5.1 trillion in today's dollars, triple the Fed figure.
For those who claim he's a Marxist, you would have to admit he's a really bad one. A true Marxist would just nationalize all those corporate interests and take the cash.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Troglodyte » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:57 am

Sure the companies are sitting on a pile of cash that could be used to expand business and create jobs. There are a few reasons for that;
Kinda foolish to expand business when either economic collapse or massive inflation is pending.
Kinda foolish to hire people to make products you can't sell because of the economy.
Kinda foolish to hire people when the uncertainty remains about taxes and employee costs.
Kinda foolish to hire people when improvement looms in another 4 months.
Successful business operates on the principle of prepare for the worst and hope for the gravy.
Kinda opposite from the government who spends the gravy without waiting for the meat.
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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:03 am

Troglodyte wrote:Sure the companies are sitting on a pile of cash that could be used to expand business and create jobs. There are a few reasons for that;
Kinda foolish to expand business when either economic collapse or massive inflation is pending.
Kinda foolish to hire people to make products you can't sell because of the economy.
Kinda foolish to hire people when the uncertainty remains about taxes and employee costs.
Kinda foolish to hire people when improvement looms in another 4 months.
Successful business operates on the principle of prepare for the worst and hope for the gravy.
Kinda opposite from the government who spends the gravy without waiting for the meat.
Which only reinforces my point about him and the accusations of Marxism that are freely thrown at him by conservatives.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Troglodyte » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:43 pm

There's a huge difference between marxism and socialism,
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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:31 pm

Troglodyte wrote:There's a huge difference between marxism and socialism,
No kidding. The US practices forms of socialism, and conservatives like the socialism that benefits them.

It's why I specifically stated Marxism.

Thanks for the softball.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by OldMan » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:14 am

I would think it is quite possible to be a Marxist, and yet not try to nationalize the whole country, certainly not on once. To do that within a few years in a country as big and diverse as the US would take a number of years, and if not done gradually would require suspension of elections and absolute control over the army, as there would for sure be repurcussions and not everyone would go along with it.

If that is your political profile though, your Marxist leanings might show up though...say if you started in life as a community organizer, went to churches where the foundations of the government were criticized, where if you were chosen as a leader that you would choose a chief law enforcement official someone who thinks like you, so that the laws to be enforced would be chosen carefully as to when and how and against whom they were enforced.

You could demonize some big businesses and give public money to those you like, as if it is your job, and not just your agenda, to choose who wins and who loses. You could also work hard just to block the efforts of those companies who don't fit your agenda, say by preventing them from doing business in a state that doesn't fit your Marxist profile as well.

And you could nationalize some companies, the weaker ones, where you carefully avoid the established corporate law and use public funds again to infuse those funds into a weak enterprise, and win favor by giving organized labor (the key constituent to any qualified Marxist movement) a sizeable chunk in ownership.

I would also call out successful wealthy people for not paying their share to help the poor, and I would support the sit-ins and protest movements of the have-nots in order to pit economic classes against one another. If I gave a speech, I would not try to lift all boats, I would point out the differences in these groups of people, and I would point out that the government, not the people, are responsible for all of the good (and by extension, none of the bad), that happens for anyone who does well.

That's what I would do, if I were trying to extend a movement over a longer period of time. And if I got two four-year chances instead of just one, I might be able to execute my agenda better in the second term than the first one.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by GOODave » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:45 am

Wabash wrote: Which only reinforces my point about him and the accusations of Marxism that are freely thrown at him by conservatives.
Why?

What companies do in times of financial crisis have zero to do with the president's disdain for private enterprise. In fact, as you showed with that article, it only reinforces those who believe he would bring all private organizations down and submit them to a centralized government.

you're actually proving the opposite of what you claim to prove.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:10 pm

OldMan wrote:I would think it is quite possible to be a Marxist, and yet not try to nationalize the whole country, certainly not on once. To do that within a few years in a country as big and diverse as the US would take a number of years, and if not done gradually would require suspension of elections and absolute control over the army, as there would for sure be repurcussions and not everyone would go along with it.

If that is your political profile though, your Marxist leanings might show up though...say if you started in life as a community organizer, went to churches where the foundations of the government were criticized, where if you were chosen as a leader that you would choose a chief law enforcement official someone who thinks like you, so that the laws to be enforced would be chosen carefully as to when and how and against whom they were enforced.

You could demonize some big businesses and give public money to those you like, as if it is your job, and not just your agenda, to choose who wins and who loses. You could also work hard just to block the efforts of those companies who don't fit your agenda, say by preventing them from doing business in a state that doesn't fit your Marxist profile as well.

And you could nationalize some companies, the weaker ones, where you carefully avoid the established corporate law and use public funds again to infuse those funds into a weak enterprise, and win favor by giving organized labor (the key constituent to any qualified Marxist movement) a sizeable chunk in ownership.

I would also call out successful wealthy people for not paying their share to help the poor, and I would support the sit-ins and protest movements of the have-nots in order to pit economic classes against one another. If I gave a speech, I would not try to lift all boats, I would point out the differences in these groups of people, and I would point out that the government, not the people, are responsible for all of the good (and by extension, none of the bad), that happens for anyone who does well.

That's what I would do, if I were trying to extend a movement over a longer period of time. And if I got two four-year chances instead of just one, I might be able to execute my agenda better in the second term than the first one.
The amount of nationalization that occurred when the Feds bailed out the banking and auto industries amounted to about .2% of the total private capitalist system in the US. Almost all of which was repaid with there being little to no government involvement in those sectors. If you believe that .2% of the capitalist system that was previously but not now nationalized as being the slippery slope to Marxism, be my guest.

The rest of your rant is hyperbole and displays the usual conservative naivete' that now emanates from conservatives. Private interest have their noses sunk into the government trough in any number of ways that could make one easily conclude the US is headed towards a facist state.

Yet conservatives actively support those issues.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by OldMan » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:22 pm

Wabash wrote: The amount of nationalization that occurred when the Feds bailed out the banking and auto industries amounted to about .2% of the total private capitalist system in the US. Almost all of which was repaid with there being little to no government involvement in those sectors. If you believe that .2% of the capitalist system that was previously but not now nationalized as being the slippery slope to Marxism, be my guest.

The rest of your rant is hyperbole and displays the usual conservative naivete' that now emanates from conservatives. Private interest have their noses sunk into the government trough in any number of ways that could make one easily conclude the US is headed towards a facist state.

Yet conservatives actively support those issues.
You call it hyperbole, but every item I pointed out represents a historical, factual occurrence. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, for three and a half years, then I'm sayin' it's a duck.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by FallStar » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:25 pm

Troglodyte wrote:There's a huge difference between marxism and socialism,
Most people today don't know what either one actually is. The media and ultra conservatives in this country have managed to turn socialism into McCarthyism. There is no such thing as a purely capitalist society, and there never will be. It simply would not work.


You are a socialist. I'm a socialist. Reagan was a socialist. Palin, Limbaugh, and Gingrich.... all socialists.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:28 pm

OldMan wrote: You call it hyperbole, but every item I pointed out represents a historical, factual occurrence. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, for three and a half years, then I'm sayin' it's a duck.
At that snapshot in time you might have been correct. However, circumstances have changed since your historical factual occurrences to the point where the amount of nationalization has decreased.

Which would not be the way to pursue the agenda you claim is in process.
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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:30 pm

FallStar wrote:
Most people today don't know what either one actually is. The media and ultra conservatives in this country have managed to turn socialism into McCarthyism. There is no such thing as a purely capitalist society, and there never will be. It simply would not work.


You are a socialist. I'm a socialist. Reagan was a socialist. Palin, Limbaugh, and Gingrich.... all socialists.
:yeahthat:

Conservatives claim they don't like socialism. But they do indeed embrace socialist programs. Some of the most extreme conservatives I've ever met are on Social Security.
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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Troglodyte » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:35 pm

Wabash wrote: At that snapshot in time you might have been correct. However, circumstances have changed since your historical factual occurrences to the point where the amount of nationalization has decreased.

Which would not be the way to pursue the agenda you claim is in process.
You can say that with a straight face?? After Obama just tried to nationalizethe entire health care insurance system, and Detroit??? What's next on his agenda, the banking system?? Oh Right, I forgot about his credit protection czar.
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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Wabash » Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:45 pm

Troglodyte wrote: You can say that with a straight face?? After Obama just tried to nationalizethe entire health care insurance system, and Detroit??? What's next on his agenda, the banking system?? Oh Right, I forgot about his credit protection czar.
Even with what you claim are attacks on capitalism, there was a whopping .2% of the private sector that was under direct government oversight. All of which was resulting from the principals in the banking and auto sectors going to DC asking/demanding a taxpayer bailout due to their poor business decisions.

He did no such thing as trying to nationalize the health care system. Yet another canard put forth by conservatives. In fact, he attempted to institute a health care system that was put forth by conservatives back in the late 80's and proposed by several republican senators back in the early 90'.s

Since a Dem attempted such a radical idea (for the US), conservatives immediately branded it as socialism because of the contrarian and obstructionist agenda that is doing everything possible to prevent the national economy from recovering.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by SLK230 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:57 am

Wabash wrote: :yeahthat:

Conservatives claim they don't like socialism. But they do indeed embrace socialist programs. Some of the most extreme conservatives I've ever met are on Social Security.
You must be joking. I am a Conservative and on Social Security. Why shouldn't I be???????????????

I paid hundred's of thousands of dollars into it over my approximate 40 year work history. Why in the world should I turn it down?

If I had a choice I never would have joined it as it is one the worst/stupidest investments you can ever make. In fact it is downright idiotic as an investment. Yet of course we are forced to participate in this ponzi scheme called Social Security.
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Parrotpaul » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:13 am

Social Security is not an investment. It's insurance.
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by SLK230 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:43 am

Parrotpaul wrote:Social Security is not an investment. It's insurance.

Not that it matters in the context of this issue but it is a tax.

What kind of insurance doesn't pay you or your beneficiary anything if you die before you reach retirement age? Or if you haven't gotten in 40 quarters of work?
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Parrotpaul » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:45 am

And neither is a tax an investment.

Health insurance doesn't do that.
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by SLK230 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:55 am

Parrotpaul wrote:And neither is a tax an investment.

Health insurance doesn't do that.
I was trying to be kind. Technically it is an investment. A forced investment. You lay out money with an expectation of getting something back in return. That is an investment.

When you pay other taxes you don't expect anything in return with SS you do.

Any more nit picking?
Thought for the day:
We are always hearing about how Social Security is going to run out of money.
How come we never hear about Welfare running out of money?

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Re: So Much for the "Obama Hates Capitalism" Line

Post by Parrotpaul » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:03 am

Define it any way you choose, and call it anything you like; it is still health insurance. If you die, no one gets anything...except for a death benefit that goes to the underage children of a working parent.

Where's the nitpicking?
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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