"the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Bick
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Bick » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:49 pm

Wabash wrote:With all due respect to Santayana.

Those who do read history are condemned to relive the mistakes made by those who don't.
Thank you for the insight, Buddha.

BTW, your response is not unlike that of the others who have no idea of what they're pissed about. Just the same mindless parroting of talking points, followed by deflection when pressed for specifics.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Wabash » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:01 pm

Why do many Trump supporters assume an individual is angry because they don't support Trump? This has also become a talking point. That someone who disagrees or is not a Trump supporter is angry about something.

The election is over, Trump won. History does not look favorably on the type of official he represents.

I notice you aren't challenging that claim.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Bick » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:19 pm

Didn't realize those rioters, protesters and non-supporters were happy. My apologies, but I could give a whip if they're happy or not. Pick the adjective that suits you for all I care.

As JQP pointed out, none of your historical references is like Trump.

What I'm challenging...again...is the basis of the thread you started. Is it really that terrifying to admit you have nothing?

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by MDDad » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:23 pm

Wabash wrote:Why do many Trump supporters assume an individual is angry because they don't support Trump?...That someone who disagrees or is not a Trump supporter is angry about something.
I don't know, but I suppose it's the same reason someone who disagreed with Hillary had to be a "hater", and of course someone who disagreed with Obama necessarily had to be a "racist".

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Wabash » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:24 pm

I don't know about them. I can only tell you I am not angry enough to do any of those things.

I've detailed why my historical references are like Trump. JQP is allowed his opinion. I happen to disagree with it.

I've never said anything was terrible. I'm only pointing out that individuals with backgrounds similar to Trump have been a presidential disaster.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Bick » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:33 pm

Maybe list some things that will qualify as a "disaster" 4 or 8 years from now that you think will happen?

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Wabash » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:41 pm

Read up on the administrations of Hoover and Bush 43. That should answer your questions.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Bick » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:13 pm

No thanks.

It's interesting to see how emasculating liberalism must be at its core. The unwillingness to be accountable for something as simple as a position taken would be laughable if not so disgusting.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Wabash » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:22 pm

So you're saying you disagree with the historical precedents of previous presidents with similar qualifications to Trump? I've cited details of the similarities to Trump and Bush 43. All I've received in response is an unqualified denials with no details.

Your last statement makes no sense.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Professor Fate » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:44 pm

Oh No, the disaster is underway. :roll:

Ford just cancelled plans to build a $1.6 Billion plant in Mexico, and will instead invest $700 million in the Flat Rock plant in Michigan, adding 700 jobs.

Ford's CEO Mark Fields says this is a vote of confidence in the pro-business environment being created by Donald Trump. He further says that "We didn't cut a deal with Trump. We did it for our business."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/news/ec ... index.html
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Wabash » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:47 pm

I guess they already forgot who bailed them out when they were getting ready to go BK.

Trump isn't president yet. Obama gets credit for this one.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by MDDad » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:19 pm

As usual, Wabash, you know just enough history to look foolish. When a country has had 44 presidents, there are bound to be instances of correlation that aren’t causative. Hoover had seven years as a cabinet member, and Bush was a governor for five, so you’ve cherry-picked the “lack of experience” of those two losers to predict failure for Trump.

Fine, but George Washington had absolutely no political experience, yet by most accounts was the primary reason this nation got off the ground at all. And Andrew Jackson had a total of three years as a congressman and senator, but he wasn’t too bad either. And Abraham Lincoln had two years as a congressman before becoming president, and may have been our best president ever. And Teddy Roosevelt had one year as a governor, and is often ranked high among our best presidents. And Woodrow Wilson had two years as a governor and did OK for himself as president. And Franklin Roosevelt was a governor for three years and was good enough to win four terms and defeat the greatest evil the world has ever known. And Dwight Eisenhower had no political experience at all and was a relative success as a president. And of course Barack Obama had essentially three years as a senator, and yet you consider him “one of the best, if not the best, presidents” we’ve ever had.

Trump may indeed fail as president. But it won’t be because our presidential history shows a record of inexperienced presidents being similar failures. Maybe you should take your own advice and read a little history before trying to post historical precedents again. You're effective as a troll, but using facts to argue a position usually makes you look inept.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by John Q. Public » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:47 pm

Professor Fate wrote:Ford just cancelled plans to build a $1.6 Billion plant in Mexico, and will instead invest $700 million in the Flat Rock plant in Michigan, adding 700 jobs.
Whole lot of corporate hocus pocus in that deal. Yes, they'll be adding 700 jobs in Michigan (to make electric cars), but they'll be shifting production of the Focus to Mexico. The Focus isn't selling well domestically, but it sells very well overseas. Moving it to Mexico would be a very smart move if Trump gets us into a trade war with China and China imposes tariffs on American-made cars - if Ford wants to sell Focuses in China. I'm not sure if that's what their plan is but the move could protect them there and not do any harm to its exports to other countries. And any kind of federal subsidies for electric cars could also play into it.

Meanwhile, Trump and Fox "News" are crediting Trump's policies for saving the jobs. But Trump isn't President yet and he has no policies yet, except for sending out half-baked, nasty tweets. Which he concurrently did about GM, saying that it made its Cruze model in Mexico. Except it only makes a little over 1% of them there. Ninety-eight-point-whatever percent are made right here in the USA. But that didn't stop Don. I have to wonder how much fear of being smeared played into Ford's decision.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Wabash » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:03 pm

MDDad wrote: Fine, but George Washington had absolutely no political experience, yet by most accounts was the primary reason this nation got off the ground at all. And Andrew Jackson had a total of three years as a congressman and senator, but he wasn’t too bad either. And Abraham Lincoln had two years as a congressman before becoming president, and may have been our best president ever. And Teddy Roosevelt had one year as a governor, and is often ranked high among our best presidents. And Woodrow Wilson had two years as a governor and did OK for himself as president. And Franklin Roosevelt was a governor for three years and was good enough to win four terms and defeat the greatest evil the world has ever known. And Dwight Eisenhower had no political experience at all and was a relative success as a president. And of course Barack Obama had essentially three years as a senator, and yet you consider him “one of the best, if not the best, presidents” we’ve ever had.
I have been very specific that Trump has had no experience in either elected office or military command. Hoover being the only other.

Let's take a look at your examples.

George Washington - General of the Army (military command) and delegate to the Continental Congress (elected office).
Andrew Jackson - General in the Army (military command) and senator (elected office).
Abraham Lincoln - Congressional and state representative (elected office).
Teddy Roosevelt - Army colonel (military command), NY Assemblymember (elected office), Governor (elected office), and Vice-President (elected office).
Woodrow Wilson - Governor (elected office).
Franklin Roosevelt - Governor (elected office).
Dwight Eisenhower - General (military command).
Barack Obama - State Senator and U.S. Senator (elected office).

Your examples aren't helping you dispel my point. I've pointed out why.

In addition to lacking any experience in either elected office or military command only Hoover had same party majorities in both houses of congress like Trump will enjoy.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by ShiftyMutt » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:50 pm

Professor Fate wrote:Oh No, the disaster is underway. :roll:

Ford just cancelled plans to build a $1.6 Billion plant in Mexico, and will instead invest $700 million in the Flat Rock plant in Michigan, adding 700 jobs.
"This is Trump’s industrial policy: Headlines about saving a few thousand manufacturing jobs that will disappear anyway in a few years because of automation, while Trump and congressional Republicans slash corporate taxes – resulting in either higher taxes on average Americans or cuts in Medicare and other vital services. And Trump and the Republicans also do away with regulations that protect the health and bargaining power of American workers.
For most American workers, it’s a lousy deal. But Trump has already proven himself a master at getting the headlines he wants." R. Reich

I question everything Trump says and does like no other official, ever. I don't think I can believe this man would do anything without benefiting himself somehow.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by MDDad » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:00 pm

Wabash, your point doesn’t need to be dispelled because it is absurd on the face of it. You’re implying that (a) Hoover had never been a military officer or held elected office, (b) that he was president when the stock market and economy collapsed and the Great Depression began, and therefore (c) that his inexperience was somehow the causative factor in that event, and therefore (d) since Trump has never been a military officer or held elected office either, history predicts a similar failure for him. That is ridiculous. If Hoover had been born in Hawaii and been a community organizer, would you have insisted history implied a similar failure for Obama?

Events like the Great Depression, Pearl Harbor and 9/11 have precipitating factors for months, years or decades before they happen. And when they finally do, they don’t much care who is president at the time, and they certainly don’t care if that president has ever been a military officer or held elected office. You found a convenient correlation and you’re going to ride it for all it’s worth, but you can’t create causation where there isn’t any.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Wabash » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:15 pm

You keep forgetting the other piece. Hoover had same party majorities in Congress.

The perfect political storm of disaster is being repeated with Trump.

As I pointed out Obama had elected experience. The comparison to Trump isn't valid.

It seems like you are trying to lay the groundwork for being able to blame anything bad on someone else when it happens during Trump's administration.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by John Q. Public » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:49 pm

You're just flailing now, Wabash.

I'll predict a similarity to Hoover's term but not because of his lack or experience. The only thing his holding office before would have done is screen him out.
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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by Wabash » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:53 pm

I guess we will see. I do enjoy all the Trump supporters trying to ignore or dispel the obvious parallels.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: "the inevitable disaster that will be the Trump Administration"

Post by MDDad » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:37 pm

JQP certainly isn't a Trump supporter, and neither am I. So who are these "Trump supporters" that are ridiculing your silly comparisons?

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