Steel Tariffs

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Vilepagan
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Vilepagan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:36 pm

Professor Fate wrote: I haven't personally decided if I agree with his position on this or not.
Worry not, I don't think he has a "position" on this at all.
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Professor Fate » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:50 pm

For once we agree.
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Vilepagan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:59 pm

According to this article, the tariffs were born out of trump's anger and deranged mind...

According to two officials, Trump's decision to launch a potential trade war was born out of anger at other simmering issues and the result of a broken internal process that has failed to deliver him consensus views that represent the best advice of his team.

On Wednesday evening, the president became "unglued," in the words of one official familiar with the president's state of mind.

A trifecta of events had set him off in a way that two officials said they had not seen before: Hope Hicks' testimony to lawmakers investigating Russia's interference in the 2016 election, conduct by his embattled attorney general and the treatment of his son-in-law by his chief of staff.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... ls-n852641

It's nice to see our leader exhibit his "stable genius" like this.
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Omar Bongo » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:08 pm

Professor Fate wrote:make you guys aware that not everyone agrees with your opinions
So that's why you do a victory dance every time Trump's approval rating rises above the mid-30s...thanks for looking out for us
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Professor Fate » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:19 pm

Hit a nerve, did I? :mrgreen:
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Omar Bongo » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:21 pm

Tired of all the winning yet?
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Professor Fate » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:44 pm

Well, let's see. My 401K is way up, Most of Obama's legacy is gone, Neil Gorsuch on the SCOTUS, tax reform, immigration crackdown...what's to be tired of?
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Vilepagan » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:58 pm

Professor Fate wrote: Most of Obama's legacy is gone, Neil Gorsuch on the SCOTUS, tax reform, immigration crackdown...what's to be tired of?
Many, many things. Do you truly see this man as a good president?
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Professor Fate » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:04 pm

In some ways yes, in others, not so much.
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by BBB » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:36 pm

John Q. Public wrote:So put a tariff on Chinese steel to bring it in line with the market price. We get very little from China, anyway.
We don’t comprise the entire market. Either way, putting a tariff on anything is bad economic policy.

Trump mistakenly thinks we benefit from eliminating our massive trade deficit if we got into a trade war. That would shrink overall demand, create lower paying jobs, lead to higher unemployment, less innovation, lower GDP, and likely strong inflationary pressure.
John Q. Public wrote:A blanket tariff that raises American manufacturers' and builders' costs by 25% is incredibly stupid economic policy....
I agree it’s dumb economic policy but want to clarify it doesn’t raise manufacturing and construction costs 25%! Steel and aluminum don’t come close to 25% of a company’s cost of goods sold let alone overall expenses. It wouldn’t even necessarily raise domestically produced steel and aluminum prices by 25%....

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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Professor Fate » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:17 pm

John Q. Public wrote: Here's a list of where our imported steel comes from:

1. Canada 16.7 percent
2. Brazil 13.2 percent
3. South Korea 9.7 percent
4. Mexico 9.4 percent
5. Russia 8.1 percent
6. Turkey 5.6 percent
7. Japan 4.9 percent
8. Germany 3.7 percent
9. Taiwan 3.2 percent
10. China 2.9 percent
11. India 2.4 percent
You are probably more of an expert on trade than I am, but your list doesn't mention that China is dumping cheap steel into lots of countries...possibly even some of the ones on your list. If China manages to put some of those country's steel mills out of business too (as well as ours), that affects us also.
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Professor Fate » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:30 pm

John Q. Public wrote: by John Q. Public » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:02 pm

How about on a 10 thousand pound piece of machinery? How about on a car? How about on an airplane?
White House trade adviser Peter Navarro was interviewed by Chris Wallace on Fox, and while Wallace conceded that Navarro is a 'very good economist, the interview was very contentious. Anyway, Navarro answered exactly those two questions. According to Navarro:

On a $30,000 car...$175.00 per/car

On a $330 million Boeing 777...at the worst $25,000

Navarro says that if Trump takes no action, the US Aluminum industry will be gone in 1 or 2 years, and the steel industry in 4 or 5 years.
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Vilepagan » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:03 pm

Professor Fate wrote: Navarro says that if Trump takes no action, the US Aluminum industry will be gone in 1 or 2 years, and the steel industry in 4 or 5 years.
Of course he's not to be questioned on this statement, it's to be taken at face value...right?
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by John Q. Public » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:33 pm

Navarro's a very sharp guy and he's interesting even if you don't agree with him. But he's also sharp enough to only tell you the parts of the story that support his case. I think I'd want to hear from an auto or airplane industry economist, as well. Or one who isn't tied to an industry or to Trump.

Something that I haven't heard mentioned in this is what exactly is meant by "steel" or "aluminum"? What form are we talking about? Sheet? Bar? Wire? I-beams? Bushel baskets? Finished products? Raise the price of steel rods "somewhere between 1% and 25%" (for BBB) and China could just as easily "dump" crankshafts and axles. Raise the price of wire and they can dump nails and screws. Er, wait. They already did that.

Professor, if you see China dumping metals on other countries as a potential problem, our putting tariffs on them would only exacerbate that by taking away one of their markets. They'd have to do something with their excess. And it would likely lower the price because it is excess.
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Fordama » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:42 pm

There is most likely little or no semblance of a cohesive, well thought out policy initiative by the Trump White House. I see little happening with Trump's ideas. His only power in this issue is to screw up any current negotiations on any trade issues.
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by broman » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:43 pm

Professor Fate wrote: On a $30,000 car...$175.00 per/car

On a $330 million Boeing 777...at the worst $25,000
John Q. Public wrote: Navarro's a very sharp guy and he's interesting even if you don't agree with him
For a Republican he used the "American are willing to pay more" a lot of times in his interviews on the Sunday shows.

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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by John Q. Public » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:47 pm

Fordama wrote: There is most likely little or no semblance of a cohesive, well thought out policy initiative by the Trump White House. I see little happening with Trump's ideas. His only power in this issue is to screw up any current negotiations on any trade issues.
Probably why the staffers who were actually working on the thing all said "WTF?" when Don made his announcement. I don't expect him to know everything that's involved in creating a tariff but it seems like any other president would at least have had a clue. And I imagine the others would have broken the news to Wall Street a little easier.
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by John Q. Public » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:51 pm

broman wrote: For a Republican he used the "American are willing to pay more" a lot of times in his interviews on the Sunday shows.
We are, huh? This "making America great again" thing is getting expensive.
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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Wabash » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:49 pm

The dots are pretty easy to connect. There is a special election in a congressional election in PA. He's trying to score points on behalf of the GOP candidate. The seat should be a GOP slam dunk. But the latest polling is showing it within the margin of error.

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Re: Steel Tariffs

Post by Omar Bongo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:51 pm

Professor Fate wrote:Well, let's see. My 401K is way up, Most of Obama's legacy is gone, Neil Gorsuch on the SCOTUS, tax reform, immigration crackdown...what's to be tired of?
That's my point, there is no "winning" to be tired of.

1. Thanks to the Trump Crash, your 401K is "up" at the same rate as it was the last two years under Obama...push

2. "Most" of Obama's "legacy"? Huh? Feelings aside, how about something concrete?

3. Gorsuch was Mitch McConnell's doing, that was as much a Trump "accomplishment" as those Thanksgiving turkeys he pardoned.

4. Tax reform? Really? Are you a big corporation? If not, you will probably be more impacted by the effect of the huge increase in the debt on interest rates (and servicing it with budget cuts) than you will be by the huge corporate giveaway.

5. The "immigration crackdown" is a myth...compared to Obama, the total number of deportations actually declined in Trump's first year to their lowest level since 2006...he in fact screwed up the system with boneheaded changes that he has had to undo when they proved to be making things worse. And a year in and he still hasn't hired the new immigration judges he said he would.

So there's the "plusses" you cited. Now on the negative side... :shock:

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