Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:10 pm

Credo ut intelligam wrote:It's about freedom of conscience and the freedom to resist being compelled to engage in speech.
Poppycock. It's about the freedom to discriminate against a class of people based on loopy superstitious fantasies...
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:13 pm

Credo ut intelligam wrote:BTW, the Supreme Court disagrees with you...I suppose it's possible SCOTUS could be wrong
Brilliant...so what's your point? The opinions of 5 conservative men are proof of what, exactly?
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:21 am

Omar Bongo wrote:Poppycock. It's about the freedom to discriminate against a class of people based on loopy superstitious fantasies...
I think you have a misunderstanding of this case, so I would encourage you to go back and do some research. Tolerance is a two-way street. Why is it that those who cry out the most for tolerance are often the most intolerant of those who disagree with them?

"Loopy superstitious fantasies." That's how you characterize the religious beliefs of the overwhelming majority of the human race? Very magnanimous of you.

Perhaps that term might better be applied to, say, the idea that a man can become a woman? Find me some basis in biology or the natural law for that and we'll talk. But I have to warn you, 30 trillion cells in the body (each XY or XX) don't lie.

Take a few minutes and learn about Jack Phillips, a good and courageous man:


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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:28 am

Omar Bongo wrote:Brilliant...so what's your point? The opinions of 5 conservative men are proof of what, exactly?
The winning side

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Omar Bongo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:26 am

Credo ut intelligam wrote:I think you have a misunderstanding of this case...
That's nice. Are you a lawyer? No? Then I think your legal opinion of this case is pretty much worthless...but please, continue bloviating


BTW, the Supreme Court disagrees with you

Yes, much like they did with Scott vs. Sanford
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Vilepagan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:22 am

Professor Fate wrote: So...if there were Christian guards at Dachau, should they have been following secular laws?
Seriously professor? You can't tell the difference between a law that says you can't discriminate against gay people and a law that says you can't undertake mass murder? Those are similar laws for similar situations?

Pls get back to me when your argument doesn't include absurdities.
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Vilepagan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:24 am

Professor Fate wrote: Just not cakes with a message he doesn't believe is right.
Are you sure it's the message he doesn't like?

So why didn't he bake the pink and blue cake?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Vilepagan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:28 am

Professor Fate wrote: Then all they had to do is say I want a blue cake with pink frosting. If they didn't tell him he was making a cake to celebrate something he thinks is wrong, then he/she would have gotten a blue cake with pink frosting.
So all they had to do was lie about being who they are and he would have baked a cake for them?

Congrats professor your client was just found guilty of discrimination. Care to try a different defense?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Fordama » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:44 am

I've often been confused about the scripture regarding cakes and parties. Is a limo driver forbidden from driving a gay couple from the wedding to the reception? What about the waiters? If they're serving meat on a Friday, does that get some people out of work?
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:21 am

I assume these rulings apply beyond Mom & Pops? What's the sales volume/market capitalization/employee count where it changes? The 1st Amendment applies to corporations, don't you know. Does it only apply to sex and gender issues? Could I refuse to do business with adulterers? House coveters? People who worship the wrong god or on the wrong day?
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Vilepagan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:34 am

Credo ut intelligam wrote: Take a few minutes and learn about Jack Phillips, a good and courageous man:
Was there something in particular that you wanted me to learn?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:20 pm

You guys keep conflating (disingenuously, I believe) the lawfully protected objection to a specific message with the unlawful discrimination against a person.

If you oppose Jack Phillips' right to not lend his work to expressing a message he objects to, then must a black or Jewish accountant or attorney be forced to take on a white supremacist or neo-Nazi organization as a client? Are they engaging in discrimination by refusing to lend their business to helping these groups?

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:28 pm

If I was VP, I would respond with the following clever riposte....
Fordama wrote:I've often been confused
I agree with that.

or

One of the smartest things you've said.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:45 pm

I don't think Jewish lawyers representing white supremacists is all that uncommon. The ACLU represented the guys with the tiki torches in Charlottesville. Jewish doctors treated the shooter in Pittsburgh.
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by MDDad » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:07 pm

And I'm sure most Christian bakers would bake a cake to celebrate gay marriage or transgenderism. The issue is not the ones who would, it's the rights of the ones who won't.

I still maintain it's an issue of involuntary servitude, and that no one should be able to force another to perform labor he doesn't want to perform.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Fordama » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:29 pm

Then any part of any job that you don't like doing is "involuntary servitude."

I hate grading papers.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Vilepagan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:44 pm

Credo ut intelligam wrote: If I was VP...
If you were me you'd be more clever by half.

How's that? :)
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:10 pm

MDDad wrote: And I'm sure most Christian bakers would bake a cake to celebrate gay marriage or transgenderism. The issue is not the ones who would, it's the rights of the ones who won't.
EXACTLY.
MDDad wrote:I still maintain it's an issue of involuntary servitude, and that no one should be able to force another to perform labor he doesn't want to perform.
Fordama wrote: Then any part of any job that you don't like doing is "involuntary servitude."

I hate grading papers.
And you can quit your job any time you want, so it is not "involuntary servitude." If the government tried to sue you so that you be would forced to grade papers then you would be in the position Jack Phillips was. That is tyranny.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Credo ut intelligam » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:08 am

Fordama wrote:I've often been confused about the scripture regarding cakes and parties. Is a limo driver forbidden from driving a gay couple from the wedding to the reception?
That's a fair question. Many other people would be similarly confused about where exactly in the U.S. Constitution do we find the right to an abortion or to same-sex marriage.

In both cases, each side would cite principles within the respective texts which support their position. I would disagree that one can make the leap from anything in the constitution to the legal right to abortion or same-sex marriage. You might similarly disagree that the scriptural opposition to transgenderism or same-sex marriage supports the right to refuse to participate in validating or celebrating these lifestyle choices.

As an aside, the Christian, Muslim, and Orthodox Jewish opposition to transgenderism and same-sex marriage does not rest solely in scripture, but is equally grounded in the natural law and biological facts. For Christians and Jews the Bible or the Torah also lends the sanction of divine revelation; I cannot speak to what the Koran says about these things.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Post by Omar Bongo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:18 am

Credo ut intelligam wrote:And you can quit your job any time you want
So can Phillips
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
George Will

"How stupid is our country?"
Donald Trump

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