Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

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Omar Bongo
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Omar Bongo » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:54 pm

The parallel is the process in how the Nazi convinced the German people to believe in conspiracies and fabricated information.

Broman, I think Luca's skipping down the well-worn path leading to his "words have meaning" rabbit-hole over your citing of "false historical and current narratives", even as he ignores your inconvenient but obvious point which is the parallels...there are several, but I think we likely agree that the invention, propagation, repetition and validation of Alternative Facts is the main one...

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Wabash » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:02 am

Broman, you have made and articulated your point very well. Know that no matter how well you prove your point, he will claim some minute detail that he believes makes your point invalid.

He tried the same with me on the Robert E. Lee thread until he realized he was backed into a corner. Then he disappeared.
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Luca » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:39 pm

People reading this thread would immediately understand why there is so little traffic and so few contributors on this side of the board.

Broman, you started a thread stating that you saw parallels between Nazi Germany and the United States. That is rather a nonspecific statement so I asked you to explain what those parallels were. You responded by saying that Donald Trump produces "false historical and current narratives and …..people accept and defend them."

Again, that is a fairly vague response that could be safely applied to any number of past and present leaders. So again I asked you to specify exactly what parallels you’re talking about. And the gallery jumps in with "Don’t answer him, Broman, it’s a trap, don’t be specific…….."

And so the obvious question in response to your bold but opaque observation goes unanswered. I would have thought that the purpose of posting the comments was to make some points and initiate a discussion of them. I gather you don’t have enough confidence in your perspective to risk explaining it.

That’s fine. By all means do not answer, Broman. Why would you want to do something so counterintuitive as explaining what you meant? You might wind up down a rabbit hole, for Christ’s sake. Honestly, don’t answer now, I don’t care at this point........Luca

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:42 pm

Luca wrote: People reading this thread would immediately understand why there is so little traffic and so few contributors on this side of the board.
Would you like me to only allow you access to the the All Transfers All the Time Forum? I don't know what's worse - trolls or people who only bitch and moan about the content but contribute nothing, themselves.
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by broman » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:48 pm

Luca wrote: That’s fine. By all means do not answer, Broman. Why would you want to do something so counterintuitive as explaining what you meant? You might wind up down a rabbit hole, for Christ’s sake. Honestly, don’t answer now, I don’t care at this point........Luca
I don't consider my examples vague and I don't have a problem with you disagreeing.....

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Luca » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:30 pm

John Q. Public wrote:Would you like me to only allow you access to the the All Transfers All the Time Forum? I don't know what's worse - trolls or people who only bitch and moan about the content but contribute nothing, themselves.
Well, JQ, I tried, didn’t I? I attempted to stimulate a rational discussion by asking someone to be a little more specific about what the hell he was talking about. Discussions are the reason this board exists, correct? But you don’t object to those crying ”Don’t answer, its a trap!!, because that you evidently feel is “contributing.” No, you object to my pointing out the obvious non sequitor.

It’s your board, as I told you in 2017. You can censor whatever you like - now that has parallels with Nazi Germany - and entertain yourself with listening to someone like Wabash 24/7............Luca

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:10 pm

I'm not censoring anyone, except for Wabash's last few trolls.

This is a forum, not a chat. Sometimes you have to wait a while for the reply you want. Sometimes real life gets in the way and it never comes. Sometimes a troll or an overly aggressive poster will cause a person to lose interest. And sometimes when a person says they've only recently begun reading about something, the better option might be to bring enlightenment rather than to confront them. I personally didn't join in because I don't know much about the rise of the Nazis, so rather than join in a discussion I know little about, I watched to see if I could learn something. Broman brought up a few things he's picked up and you - who seem to know about the subject - only brought "Oh yeah, big man? Let's see what ya got!" And the discussion went nowhere and I learned nothing from a thread that could have been interesting and enlightening. Before you criticize others, ask yourself what kind of quality information you've contributed.
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Luca » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:23 pm

Fair enough. Point well taken........Luca

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Vilepagan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:52 am

Luca wrote:Broman, you started a thread stating that you saw parallels between Nazi Germany and the United States. That is rather a nonspecific statement so I asked you to explain what those parallels were.
And he responded with a specific example. Your response was to complain about his response.

If you disagree with Broman's point please tell us why. Then we'll have a discussion.
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Professor Fate » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:56 pm

Broman's "point' was too vague to have any discussion about it. He basically said Trump was like Hitler because Trump acts like Hitler. He gave no examples to back up his opinion, just rambled about vague "narratives."
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by broman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:18 pm

Luca has an echo...

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Vilepagan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:54 pm

Professor Fate wrote: Broman's "point' was too vague to have any discussion about it.
Nonsense.
He basically said Trump was like Hitler because Trump acts like Hitler. He gave no examples to back up his opinion, just rambled about vague "narratives."
What utter tripe. Can you not read?

broman gave a specific example, to wit:

" Great example is how the German Evangelical Church integrated Nazi ideology with the Christianity."

After he was asked by Luca for "more" he responded with:

"The parallel is the process in how the Nazi convinced the German people to believe in conspiracies and fabricated information. First Nazi ideology became a legitimate alternative then it became the only reality. Is the "deep state" going after Trump no different than secret Jewish cabal that controls world capital?"

So either you can't read, or didn't read broman's responses...or, you're just avoiding the issue by trying to out condescend Luca.

Either way you're dead wrong.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Professor Fate » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:04 pm

Vilepagan wrote: broman gave a specific example, to wit:

" Great example is how the German Evangelical Church integrated Nazi ideology with the Christianity."
Which is not a parallel until you show its counterpart in Trump's time. An example is not a parallel until you compare it to something.
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Vilepagan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:48 pm

Professor Fate wrote: Which is not a parallel until you show its counterpart in Trump's time.
Which he did.

"Is the "deep state" going after Trump no different than secret Jewish cabal that controls world capital?"

Did you miss this when broman posted it?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Professor Fate » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:15 pm

How is that the parallel of integrating Nazi ideology with Christianity?
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Vilepagan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:04 pm

It's not, professor.... #-o

Let's see if you can figure out who or what it IS a parallel to...
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Professor Fate » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:28 pm

Anybody seen the goalposts? They are not where they used to be.
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Vilepagan » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:47 am

I guess you can't read after all. Nobody moved any goalposts professor, you just refused to see them.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Omar Bongo » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:50 am

As I said, the use of Alternative Facts is a obvious parallel. Also, the never ending repetition of BIG lies, the ignoring of inconvenient truths, portraying defeats as victories, not just resisting but demonizing the opposition, the use of threats and intimidation...I can't believe I'm talking about the friggin' U.S. president... :steam:
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Post by Wabash » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:18 am

Don't forget the constant attacks on the media.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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