First Charges filed by Mueller

cruiser
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by cruiser » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:33 pm

...says the guy , who made a joke about the assassination of two american presidents..

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Vilepagan
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by Vilepagan » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:44 pm

cruiser wrote: ...says the guy , who made a joke about the assassination of two american presidents..
Really? Please show me the "joke" I made.
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by John Q. Public » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:06 pm

Lawfare Blog's explanation of where the investigation stands:
Here is, as Bill Barr might call it, “the bottom line”: The Mueller Report describes, in excruciating detail and with relatively few redactions, a candidate and a campaign aware of the existence of a plot by a hostile foreign government to criminally interfere in the U.S. election for the purpose of supporting that candidate’s side. It describes a candidate and a campaign who welcomed the efforts and delighted in the assistance. It describes a candidate and a campaign who brazenly and serially lied to the American people about the existence of the foreign conspiracy and their contacts with it. And yet, it does not find evidence to support a charge of criminal conspiracy, which requires not just a shared purpose but a meeting of the minds.

Here is the other bottom line: The Mueller Report describes a president who, on numerous occasions, engaged in conduct calculated to hinder a federal investigation. It finds ample evidence that at least a portion of that conduct met all of the statutory elements of criminal obstruction of justice. In some of the instances in which all of the statutory elements of obstruction are met, the report finds no persuasive constitutional or factual defenses. And yet, it declines to render a judgment on whether the president has committed a crime.

Now, the House must decide what to do with these facts. If it wants to actually confront the substance of the report, it will introduce a resolution to begin an impeachment inquiry.

~snip~

The problem with this approach is that, under the current system, the options for checking a president who abuses his power to the degree that Trump has are functionally impeachment proceedings or nothing.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/mueller-rep ... nt-inquiry
Bottom bottom line: If Donald hadn't fired Comey or threatened witnesses or offered to reward them and kept his damn trap shut he'd be off the hook. But he didn't do that.
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by cruiser » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:11 pm

Vilepagan wrote:Really it's not...just ask Lincoln or Kennedy. :hide:
pagan - your post,no?

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by John Q. Public » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:35 pm

A chart from Lawfare showing the possible obstruction charges in MUELLER'S REPORT.

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Vilepagan
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by Vilepagan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:55 am

cruiser wrote: pagan - your post,no?
Yes of course that's my post...you see that as a joke? If so, perhaps you should check your own morals. Nothing funny about assassination.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by John Q. Public » Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:15 am

It was a dumb post whether it's what you meant or not. Accept it and move on.

Meanwhile, legal scholars are saying the the House has a responsibility to start impeachment hearings; that not doing so sets a precedent and says that obstruction is acceptable.
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Vilepagan
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by Vilepagan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:37 am

John Q. Public wrote: It was a dumb post whether it's what you meant or not.
I disagree. It was an accurate observation, nothing more. If people see more than that, they brought that themselves.
Meanwhile, legal scholars are saying the the House has a responsibility to start impeachment hearings; that not doing so sets a precedent and says that obstruction is acceptable.
That's fine, but is anyone listening in Congress?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by John Q. Public » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:46 am

Dunno. Holding hearings would be the right thing to do - and many would say it's their responsibility - but it would be politically risky all the way around. Hardcore Liberals would be upset if they don't hold hearings, moderates would be upset if they find cause but don't bring charges and Trump fans and apologists will be upset if they do anything. And then it goes to the Senate where Republicans, especially, would be in a serious bind if the evidence says they should convict. Buuuut, that would depend on public sentiment and Trump has the power of Fox behind him.
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by Vilepagan » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:42 am

Well, there's always censure. Perhaps the Republicans can muster enough courage for that.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by Wabash » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:03 am

I doubt it. They have shown themselves to be ball less.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by Wabash » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:24 pm

Gotta love the soundbite by Guiliani this morning.

"..There's nothing wrong with taking information from Russians...it depends on where it came from."
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by John Q. Public » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:19 am

Now Donald's saying he'll fight impeachment all the way to the Supreme Court. I can't imagine what grounds even he would think he'd have.

I was ambivalent on it before but now I'm starting to think Congress has a duty to at least hold hearings.
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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by Wabash » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:37 am

The idiot president is either clueless about how impeachment proceedings work.

Or he is just playing to his base because he knows they are clueless about how impeachment proceedings work.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by Fordama » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:15 am

Wabash wrote:I doubt it. They have shown themselves to be ball less.
"They have no balls, Cotton."


But Trump is going to "fight" impeachment to the Supreme Court???

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by broman » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:16 pm

Special counsel Robert Mueller expressed concerns in a letter to Attorney General William Barr that Barr's four-page letter to Congress summarizing the "principal conclusions" of Mueller's findings didn't fully capture his 448-page report, according to a source with knowledge of Mueller's letter.

Later, Barr and Mueller spoke by phone and while Mueller didn't think Barr's letter was inaccurate, the special counsel believed his report was more nuanced on the obstruction of justice issue, according to Justice Department officials. Mueller was frustrated by media coverage, and wanted more of the report to come out, those officials told CNN.

As a part of the letter from Mueller's office, the special counsel's team enclosed a redacted version of the introduction and executive summaries that appear in the report. But, at that point, the materials had not been deconflicted with the intelligence community and so Justice officials did not believe they could make them public without further review, according to the source.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/politics ... index.html

The executive summaries of Mueller findings already out. Dems need to use them to impeach Trump or drop the whole thing. :steam:

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by broman » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:24 pm

This what the Dems need to pounce on...

Third, the investigation established that several individuals affiliated with the Trump Campaign lied to the Office, and to Congress, about their interactions with Russian-affiliated individuals and related matters. Those lies materially impaired the investigation of Russian election interference.

The investigation did not always yield admissible information or testimony, or a complete picture of the activities undertaken by subjects of the investigation. Some individuals invoked their Fifth Amendment right against compelled self-incrimination and were not, in the Office's judgment, appropriate candidates for grants of immunity.

Even when individuals testified or agreed to be interviewed, they sometimes provided information that was false or incomplete, leading to some of the false-statements charges described above. And the Office faced practical limits on its ability to access relevant evidence as well-numerous witnesses and subjects lived abroad, and documents were held outside the United States.

Further, the Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct we investigated—including some associated with the Trump Campaign—deleted relevant communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature encryption or that do not provide for long-term retention of data or communications records.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-m ... -summaries

FYI, this is only from the conspiracy section...

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by Vilepagan » Wed May 01, 2019 2:59 am

And yet somehow it's being reported that trump and his associates "fully cooperated and complied" with Mueller's team...what a load of horsehockey. These people should be required to testify under oath.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by John Q. Public » Wed May 01, 2019 8:46 am

Good news for perjurers.

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Re: First Charges filed by Mueller

Post by Tommy Tar » Wed May 01, 2019 10:40 am

The Mueller investigation is done and "put to bed"
Sorry guys.
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