One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Bick
Posts: 4801
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Bick » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:08 pm

Shocking that idiots who believe they are superior by virtue of their race would be in the minority. I'll bet this is national news.



User avatar
Vilepagan
Posts: 11864
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:07 am

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Vilepagan » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Bick wrote:Source of the post If they believe they are supreme, "better" than someone else by virtue of their race or color of their skin... an unequivocal YES.


So to clarify, you think they are mentally ill as opposed to just being wrong, is that correct?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

Bick
Posts: 4801
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Bick » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:44 pm

Hmmm. That's an interesting point. I suppose in reality I wouldn't know if they or someone claiming the world is flat are truly mentally ill. Same goes for the Heaven's Gate group. Seemed like a pretty crazy idea to me, but I suppose you could accuse me of hyperbole with them as well.

Are you?

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 17447
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby John Q. Public » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:17 pm

Think about it less as one group thinking their race is superior but as the group thinking the other race is inferior. Subtle but maybe easier to see from that angle.

And it isn't just one or two crazy guys on street corners. It's whole swaths of the population and it's people in positions of power. It's what the whole Black Lives Matter/football players kneeling thing is all about.

We thought we were over it but obviously we were wrong. And it's only getting worse with the anti-(brown)-immigrant/"This isn't the America I grew up in" sentiment that doesn't even seem to raise eyebrows among many and is even strongly defended by a whole lot of people. But they aren't racist or anything. :roll:
Don't look at me, I just work here.

Bick
Posts: 4801
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Bick » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:11 pm

Pretty sure the math guy would agree if A is superior to B, then B is inferior to A.

There's no nuanced difference. It's the definition. In the case of race, it's lunacy or whatever VP wants to call it. It's wrong, inaccurate to the point of ridiculous... whatever. These guys do not have significant power, and are dismissed by anyone with common sense - regardless of party affiliation. All the non liberals on this forum have denounced those guys as irrelevant. Why you JQP, would give those clowns an ounce of consideration worthy of debate is truly curious. The mainstream right doesn't take those guys seriously. Why do you?

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 17447
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby John Q. Public » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:15 pm

They're technically the same, but they're psychologically different. I guarantee that "Do you feel you are superior to ______" would poll differently than "Do you think _______ are inferior to you".

You keep blowing this off because you think this is a small problem, but Laura Ingraham and the Professor just pointed out that it's far bigger than you seem to realize. Racial identity politics is one of the biggest things driving the mid- to far right these days but you only seem to be looking at the jack-booted skinheads.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Vilepagan
Posts: 11864
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:07 am

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Vilepagan » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:14 am

Bick wrote:Source of the post These guys do not have significant power, and are dismissed by anyone with common sense - regardless of party affiliation.


I'm not as confident as you that they don't have "significant" power when you consider that our president won't dismiss them and our current government can't really be called "pro-immigration".
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 23057
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Wabash » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:23 am

The weekend's events lets them know they are outnumbered.

When the election was happening I read an idiot screed published by a group called the III Percenters telling their members to get their guns and be ready to deploy to protect Trump. That liberals (the term "Deep State" hadn't been coined yet) and other forces were going to make sure that he wouldn't become president. And that they were the only ones who could make sure that happened.

After Bunkerville, NV I think they somehow have a belief that they have greater support amongst the populace.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

MDDad
Posts: 11883
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby MDDad » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:48 am

John Q. Public wrote:Racial identity politics is one of the biggest things driving the mid- to far right these days...

While I agree that's true, I'd submit it's even more true of the mid- to far left. It's not uncommon for 70% to 80% of a liberal ethnic or racial group to vote for a single candidate, at least partially based on racial identity, while almost nobody on the right ever garners those kinds of numbers.

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 23057
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Wabash » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:58 am

What? Given Trump's popularity with non-college educated white males, this is not close to reality.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

Bick
Posts: 4801
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Bick » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:18 am

Vilepagan wrote:Source of the post I'm not as confident as you that they don't have "significant" power when you consider that our president won't dismiss them and our current government can't really be called "pro-immigration".


Assuming these guys are far right Nazis, how many hold seats in congress? Compare that to the far left Socialists. I think the Socialists have more, and are a much stronger influence today. I'm not even sure what the Nazi platform is.

Shouldn't the correct descriptive term for our gov't be anti illegal immigration / pro legal immigration? Aren't we all?

While it might not be as much "fun" ridiculing each other's differences (not saying you're doing this right now), maybe you and I could start a dialogue to see what we have in common politically instead?

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 23057
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Wabash » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:27 am

Bick wrote:Source of the post I'm not even sure what the Nazi platform is.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's close to this one.

The Nazi Party: Platform of the National-Socialist German Workers’ Party

The Program of the German Workers’ Party is a program for our time.

The leadership rejects the establishment of new aims after those set out in the Program have been achieved, for the sole purpose of making it possible for the Party to continue to exist as the result of the artificially stimulated dissatisfaction of the masses.

1. We demand the uniting of all Germans within one Greater Germany, on the basis of the right to self-determination of nations.

2. We demand equal rights for the German people (Volk) with respect to other nations, and the annulment of the peace treaty of Versailles and St. Germain.

3. We demand land and soil (Colonies) to feed our People and settle our excess population.

4. Only Nationals (Volksgenossen) can be Citizens of the State. Only persons of German blood can be Nationals, regardless of religious affiliation. No Jew can therefore be a German National.

5. Any person who is not a Citizen will be able to live in Germany only as a guest and must be subject to legislation for Aliens.

6. Only a Citizen is entitled to decide the leadership and laws of the State. We therefore demand that only Citizens may hold public office, regardless of whether it is a national, state or local office.
We oppose the corrupting parliamentary custom of making party considerations, and not character and ability, the criterion for appointments to official positions.

7. We demand that the State make it its duty to provide opportunities of employment first of all for its own Citizens. If it is not possible to maintain the entire population of the State, then foreign nationals (non-Citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.

8. Any further immigration of non-Germans is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who entered Germany after August 2, 1914, be forced to leave the Reich without delay.

9. All German Citizens must have equal rights and duties.

10. It must be the first duty of every Citizen to carry out intellectual or physical work. Individual activity must not be harmful to the public interest and must be pursued within the framework of the community and for the general good.
We therefore demand:

11. The abolition of all income obtained without labor or effort.
Breaking the Servitude of Interest.

12. In view of the tremendous sacrifices in property and blood demanded of the nation by every war, personal gain from the war must be termed a crime against the nation. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all enterprises (already) converted into corporations (trusts).

14. We demand profit-sharing in large enterprises.

15. We demand the large-scale development of old-age pension schemes.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle class; the immediate communalization of the large department stores, which are to be leased at low rates to small tradesmen. We demand the most careful consideration for the owners of small businesses in orders placed by national, state, or community authorities.

17. We demand land reform in accordance with our national needs and a law for expropriation without compensation of land for public purposes. Abolition of ground rent and prevention of all speculation in land.

18. We demand ruthless battle against those who harm the common good by their activities. Persons committing base crimes against the People, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished by death without regard to religion or race.

19. We demand the replacement of Roman Law, which serves a materialistic World Order, by German Law.

20. In order to make higher education – and thereby entry into leading positions – available to every able and industrious German, the State must provide a thorough restructuring of our entire public educational system. The courses of study at all educational institutions are to be adjusted to meet the requirements of practical life. Understanding of the concept of the State must be achieved through the schools (teaching of civics) at the earliest age at which it can be grasped. We demand the education at the public expense of specially gifted children of poor parents, without regard to the latters’ position or occupation.

21. The State must raise the level of national health by means of mother-and-child care, the banning of juvenile labor, achievements of physical fitness through legislation for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and maximum support for all organizations providing physical training for young people.

22. We demand the abolition of hireling troops and the creation of a national army.

23. We demand laws to fight against deliberate political lies and their dissemination by the press. In order to make it possible to create a German press, we demand:
a) all editors and editorial employees of newspapers appearing in the German language must be German by race;
b) non-German newspapers require express permission from the State for their publication. They may not be printed in the German language;
c) any financial participation in a German newspaper or influence on such a paper is to be forbidden by law to non-Germans and the penalty for any breach of this law will be the closing of the newspaper in question, as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-Germans involved.
Newspapers which violate the public interest are to be banned. We demand laws against trends in art and literature which have a destructive effect on our national life, and the suppression of performances that offend against the above requirements.

24. We demand freedom for all religious denominations, provided that they do not endanger the existence of the State or offend the concepts of decency and morality of the Germanic race.
The Party as such stands for positive Christianity, without associating itself with any particular denomination. It fights against the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a permanent revival of our nation can be achieved only from within, on the basis of: Public Interest before Private Interest.

25. To carry out all the above we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the Reich. Unquestioned authority by the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and over its organizations in general. The establishment of trade and professional organizations to enforce the Reich basic laws in the individual states.

The Party leadership promises to take an uncompromising stand, at the cost of their own lives if need be, on the enforcement of the above points.
Munich, Germany
February 24, 1920.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

MDDad
Posts: 11883
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby MDDad » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:39 am

Wabash wrote:What? Given Trump's popularity with non-college educated white males, this is not close to reality.

Sorry, but it is indeed reality. Hillary Clinton received 74% of the nonwhite vote, including 88% of all black votes. She also received 78% of all LGBT votes. In almost every election there are numerous lower-level races wherein minority candidates receive overwhelming percentages of the votes from their racial or ethnic groups. If you want to define racial-identity politics, the best examples of such one-sided voting patterns are almost all on the Democratic side.

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 23057
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Wabash » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:40 am

I just pointed out why that isn't also true for the Republican side.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

Bick
Posts: 4801
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Bick » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:40 am

John Q. Public wrote:Source of the post You keep blowing this off because you think this is a small problem, but Laura Ingraham and the Professor just pointed out that it's far bigger than you seem to realize. Racial identity politics is one of the biggest things driving the mid- to far right these days but you only seem to be looking at the jack-booted skinheads.


You are correct that I don't see racial identity politics as significant. I thought the election of a black president pretty much quashed the idea.

I'll also submit I must not understand what you mean by racial identity politics, or why you think it's a significant issue today.

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 17447
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby John Q. Public » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:40 am

MDDad wrote:Source of the post Sorry, but it is indeed reality. Hillary Clinton received 74% of the nonwhite vote, including 88% of all black votes. She also received 78% of all LGBT votes. In almost every election there are numerous lower-level races wherein minority candidates receive overwhelming percentages of the votes from their racial or ethnic groups. If you want to define racial-identity politics, the best examples of such one-sided voting patterns are almost all on the Democratic side.

You seem to be confusing voting for the people who want to protect groups' rights vs. people who want to take them away with some sort of knee-jerk ethnic-identity vote. Yes, voting for Obama because he was black is as bad as reasons get, but voting for him (or Hillary, or Kerry, or....) because he won't try to oppress you or others is as excellent as reasons get. Of course large percentages of blacks and gays - and Hispanics - vote Democratic. 70% to 80% of Jews do it, as well. Is that ethnic identity or is it voting for the person whose views align with yours?
Don't look at me, I just work here.

Bick
Posts: 4801
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Bick » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:30 am

It's probably just me, but the left's platform seems primarily based on some aggrieved status or victimhood. It also seems you would have to think of yourself as a victim to support this. In order to be a victim, you've got to have a perpetrator(s).

Interesting story, (for me anyway) when my son was a teenager, I remember him telling me his current girlfriend frequently mentioned what jerks her last boyfriends were. My response to him was "guess who the NEXT jerk is going to be?". "How could you say that about her, you don't even know her", he replied. 6 months later...he was the jerk.

Looking forward to the day we can set aside the fault finding, and work together toward a prosperous, safe USA.

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 17923
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Fordama » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:39 am

Looking forward to the day we can set aside the fault finding, and work together toward a prosperous, safe USA.
Hard to happen when you have a side of the political spectrum that either says that there aren't any problems with minority rights, or that the fault lies with the minority themselves and not the power structure of society.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 7343
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby Omar Bongo » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:44 am

Bick wrote:Source of the post It's probably just me, but the left's platform seems primarily based on some aggrieved status or victimhood. It also seems you would have to think of yourself as a victim to support this. In order to be a victim, you've got to have a perpetrator(s).

You're going to have to do better than taking Trump's political philosophy verbatim and assigning it to his opposition. I mean really, who do you think you're fooling?
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
George Will

"How stupid is our country?"
Donald Trump

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 17447
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: One dead as car strikes crowds amid protests of white nationalist gathering

Postby John Q. Public » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:12 am

I think "the left," as you want to call it, sees it more as fixing things that have become broken. Ability for most people to make a decent living, access to health care, a reasonable retirement income, affordable higher education - we had all those things at one time. Call "us" victims if you want, but a lot of us think it would be nice to have them back.

As far as equal rights go, yeah, that's about victimhood. And it's been an ongoing struggle since we &@#%ed it up in 1865.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

Return to “National”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest