Syria?

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Professor Fate
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Syria?

Postby Professor Fate » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:34 pm

No one appears to be discussing this. Can it be that everyone here is unsure about what to do about the gas attacks?

I have been a hawk most of the time, in the past. But I'm having trouble with this one. Beside the fact that there does not seem to be a side we can support there (with the possible exception of the Kurds), I'm concerned with how can we be sure who is responsible for the gas attacks. I am not even convinced that they happened at all.

A few weeks ago, while I was giving Fordama a failing grade regarding his take on what happened in Libya, I ran across some disturbing things about that situation in 2011. What particularly bothered me, was the fact that NATO and other forces joined the battle against Gaddafi, based in a large part on reports of atrocities committed by his regime. The truth of the matter, is that both sides were guilty of atrocities. But...this sentence caught my eye:

"In June 2011, a more detailed investigation by Amnesty International found that many of the allegations against Gaddafi and the Libyan state turned out to be false or to lack any credible evidence, saying that rebels at times appeared to have knowingly made false claims or manufactured evidence." - Cockburn, Patrick (24 June 2011). "Amnesty questions claim that Gaddafi ordered rape as weapon of war". The Independent. London. Retrieved 26 June 2011.

If the evidence turns out to be clear that Assad's forces are the guilty ones, then I welcome the military action that it appears will come from a coalition of nations. But we need to be sure we aren't being played by the rebels producing some theater for the media. The media was manipulated by the Libyan rebels...is it happening again?

What does everyone think? It seems like the latest attack was strategically not in Assad's interests, considering the fact that Trump floated the idea of leaving Syria. That would make it logical that the opposite is true...that it would be in the strategic interest of the rebels that this gas attack should occur (or appear to occur), in order to keep the Americans in it.


Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Wabash
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Re: Syria?

Postby Wabash » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:12 pm

Apparently we have no fiscal issues if we can afford to pick another fight.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

broman
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Re: Syria?

Postby broman » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:30 pm

Image

The Kurds were one of the reasons we beat back ISIS in Iraq ans Syria. Any Kurdish autonomy creates conflict with our NATO "ally" Turkey. Attack Assad and you help ISIS. Stay the hell out......

broman
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Re: Syria?

Postby broman » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:41 pm

meanwhile....
FALLOUT FROM THE TURKEY-IRAN-RUSSIA MEETING
Russian President Vladimir Putin, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan met in Ankara for their second trilateral meeting on Syria. They see themselves as the “three guarantor states of the ceasefire in Syria,” according to Sputnik media, and they have been participating in talks in Astana relating to “reconciliation.”
http://www.jpost.com/International/Fall ... ing-549022

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Fordama
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Re: Syria?

Postby Fordama » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:44 am

GHW Bush, Clinton, and now Trump are royally screwing the Kurds. W Bush and Obama did them some favors, at least.

But generally, of all the crap going on in that region, our treatment of the Kurds has been a national disgrace.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Professor Fate
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Re: Syria?

Postby Professor Fate » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:55 am

How so? It's my understanding that it's the Kurds we've been defending all along, first from Saddam, and more recently from Turkey and the Syrians.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Fordama
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Re: Syria?

Postby Fordama » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:02 am

We did not protect the Kurds as we should have--especially after GHW Bush encouraged them to rebel during the 1st Gulf War, but then we didn't back their rebellion, and Hussein brutally struck back. Then we did enforce no-flay zones later.

Clinton and W Bush protected them but did not arm them very well because we're worried about stepping on Turkey's toes. Obama supplied arms and training to Kurds in Iraq to help fight ISIS. He was then going to do the same for Syrian Kurds.

But Trump nixed that program. And now the Turks are attacking the Kurds as well as Assad.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Professor Fate
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Re: Syria?

Postby Professor Fate » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:11 am

Yeah, the Kurdish/Turkish thing is a tightrope act.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Professor Fate
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Re: Syria?

Postby Professor Fate » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:19 am

French President Macron says he has proof that the Assad forces are behind the most recent chemical weapons attack on the rebels.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

seeinred
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Re: Syria?

Postby seeinred » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:23 am

Personally, I do not doubt the legitimacy of the claims that Asad's regime chemically attacked his people, but hopefully that confirmation of "proof" didn't come from the same dudes who told the US that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD's!!!
:shock:

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John Q. Public
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Re: Syria?

Postby John Q. Public » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:45 am

This is precisely the type of situation the UN was conceived to deal with. Unfortunately, the way it was designed, it's powerless to do anything about it.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

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Professor Fate
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Re: Syria?

Postby Professor Fate » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:02 pm

Agreed. I assume you are referring to the fact that Russia can veto any action. So we have to build a coalition. It sounds like France, Britain, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE? Very big news that Britain is sending submarines to the area. I would assume the message there is to any Russian naval forces to think twice about getting involved.

Don't count out Israel having a role also.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

broman
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Re: Syria?

Postby broman » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:58 pm

Trump is going live in a few minutes.... Star Date 4/13/18 5:58

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Wabash
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Re: Syria?

Postby Wabash » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:35 am

Given that Trump campaigned on an isolationist platform this looks more like a "Wag the Dog" attempt at distraction.

Believing that Trump cares about the oppressed peoples of Syria after banning their refugees from coming here strikes me as disingenuous.

Bill Maher summed it up perfectly last night. We should call this what it is. Operation Desert Stormy.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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John Q. Public
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Re: Syria?

Postby John Q. Public » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:14 am



#Groan
Don't look at me, I just work here.

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Parrotpaul
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Re: Syria?

Postby Parrotpaul » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:19 am

It's like deja vu all over again. (Credit...Yogi)
"I think I may say that of all the men we meet with, nine parts of ten are what they are, good or evil, useful or not, by their education." John Locke

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Professor Fate
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Re: Syria?

Postby Professor Fate » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:13 pm

Wabash wrote:Source of the post
Believing that Trump cares about the oppressed peoples of Syria after banning their refugees from coming here strikes me as disingenuous.

For you to suggest that anyone who opposes massive numbers of immigrants, can not also care about babies, children, and grannies, getting gassed is pathetic.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

broman
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Re: Syria?

Postby broman » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:23 pm

Trump made it a campaign promise to stop Syrian refugees from coming to the United States and would send back the ones who were already here. Remember the St. Louis!!!


Anyway, It might be time for you to seek some help for turning every comment about Trump into your own personal offense.

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Wabash
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Re: Syria?

Postby Wabash » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:29 pm

Professor Fate wrote:For you to suggest that anyone who opposes massive numbers of immigrants, can not also care about babies, children, and grannies, getting gassed is pathetic.

I'm not a president who made a lot of statements about not being involved in Syria.

Trump did.

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Professor Fate
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Re: Syria?

Postby Professor Fate » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:32 pm

And if you were, and then saw what was going on with the gassings, you would do what? Nothing?
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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