Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

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Professor Fate
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Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Professor Fate » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:32 pm

In 2016, some 43 million gallons of milk had been dumped between January and August. For a variety of reasons, America is in the midst of a massive dairy glut. Americans cannot consume all the milk being produced, so much of it is going to waste. Over production, lower prices, Russian retaliation for sanctions, China's economy slowing down, European Union raising caps on production, and the stronger U.S. Dollar are all factors.

Another factor is the Canadians tariffs.

Dairy farmers eager for Trump to ease milk glut
Dairy farmers want Trump to take aim at Canada's policies
.

Blame Canada. That’s what U.S. farmers say about some of the bubbling gluts weighing on the milk market, and they are eager for President Donald Trump to do something about it.

...Under the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement, which Trump has lambasted as “the worst trade deal ever,” most U.S. dairy products face duties of as much as 300%. Ultrafiltered milk wasn’t part of those rules and arrives in Canada without tariffs.

...A key battleground is the little known market for ultrafiltered milk, a concentrated ingredient used to boost protein content in cheese and yogurt. Canada is creating incentives for processors to buy from domestic manufacturers. U.S. producers say that could be a disaster, and they allege the new policy would violate trade agreements. Companies in Wisconsin and New York alone might lose $150 million in sales north of the border.

...Meanwhile, American companies say they have already lost Canadian customers. Grassland Dairy Products Inc., based in Greenwood, Wisconsin, annually exports $100 million of ultrafiltered milk to Canada. The company probably will lose all those sales in the next few months, said Goedhart Westers, vice president of business development. It could take two or three years to find sales with similar returns to replace the lost exports, he said.

“Us losing this business, it means we might have to scale down,” Westers said. “It’ll affect employees, and the thousands of farms we buy milk from in the Midwest.”

http://www.farmfutures.com/dairy/dairy- ... -milk-glut


The new Canadian policies also cap the amount of skim milk powder they will buy, resulting in more (an estimated 120,000 metric tons/year) being sold into a 2 million-ton global market, causing a significant disruption in prices, said James McVitty, vice president of government relations and trade strategy for New Zealand-based Fonterra Co-operative Group Ltd., the world’s biggest dairy exporter.

“We share the concern of the U.S. industry,” McVitty said by phone from Washington.

Maybe Trump has a reason for what he's doing with Canada. And Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau knows he will have to deal with this in NAFTA negotiations if not before.


Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby John Q. Public » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:03 pm

So.... American farmers overproduced and Canada's a big meanie because it has an adequate supply of domestic milk. Am I understanding correctly? Do they have a glut of their own? The quote only presents one side of the story, so it's hard to tell.
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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Professor Fate » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:43 pm

I don't know whether Canada has a glut of their own. Whether they do or not, isn't that the idea behind tariffs? To influence all buyers to purchase only domestic, not foreign products.

Are you saying that if both sides have a glut, then it's somehow okay for Canada to put 270% tariffs on American milk, but not okay for America to put 270% tariffs on their milk?

What happened to free trade? Why would Canadians buy American milk instead of Canadian milk? Answer: Maybe the price is lower, or maybe the Wisconsin or New York dairy farms are closer and have more shipping options? I don't know, but my main question is about why it is okay for one side to impose tariffs, but not okay for the other side. --:--
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Wabash » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:57 pm

The average tariff between the U.S. and Canada right now is 0.8% (with the other members of the G7, it's only slightly larger, between 1.4% and 1.6%).
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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Professor Fate » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:00 pm

Can you provide the figures for the opposite direction?
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Wabash » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:02 pm

I would rather you do your own research. To quote one of those who used to follow me around (Goodave), "I don't do requests."
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Professor Fate » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:07 pm

Yeah, I'm too lazy to do it too, but your figures are meaningless without the reverse figures to compare them to.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Wabash » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:58 pm

Can't help it if you have bad work habits.

Just because you don't believe me doesn't make it wrong.
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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby John Q. Public » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:31 pm

Firstly, saying they have a 270% - 300% tariff is being dishonest. Milk exports to Canada are tax-free up to a certain point, where the tariffs kick in.

Secondly, American farmers admit that they overproduced and they're looking for someplace to get rid of it (read: dump it at a below-market price). Canada, not being part of the United States, has its own dairy farmers to look out for and for that reason it has its own price targets.

Thirdly, hey! Maybe it'll be a good year for this stuff:

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Professor Fate » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:14 pm

I noticed you avoided the more substantial question I posed, about why tariffs on American goods are perfectly okay in the minds of some countries' leaders, but tariffs by America on the imports from those same countries is somehow unfair.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Wabash » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:26 pm

We have tariffs. That is not true.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby John Q. Public » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:33 pm

Professor Fate wrote:Source of the post I noticed you avoided the more substantial question I posed, about why tariffs on American goods are perfectly okay in the minds of some countries' leaders....

And you seem to have missed where I said there's no tariff up to the point that it starts affecting the price Canadian farmers get for their milk. Their UNFAIR(!) tariff sounds like an anti-dumping defense to me. I'm sure we'd do the same thing. We probably do.
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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Professor Fate » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:15 pm

John Q. Public wrote:Source of the post Milk exports to Canada are tax-free up to a certain point, where the tariffs kick in.

No, they aren't.
Take milk, for instance. Within quota, the tariff is 7.5%. Over-quota milk faces a 241% tariff. Other over-quota rates include blended dairy powder at 270%. Duties rise to as high as 314% for other products, according to data from the World Trade Organization. Canadian officials argue that all countries subsidize dairy, including the U.S. -- Canada essentially does so indirectly by closing its borders and capping production. If you’ve got a slice of the quota, though, the tariffs don’t apply. And Canada has given up slices of its market in trade talks. (Including in the Trans Pacific Partnership trade deal that Trump quit.)

So is Trump right on tariffs?

Yes and no. Yes, Canada has high milk tariffs beyond the allowed quotas, with an average duty of 218.5% on dairy. But on most other products, the country is roughly in line, with a trade-weighted average of 3.1% overall, WTO data show. “Trump’s use of 270% to besmirch Canada’s overall trade policies is disingenuous to be polite about it,” Derek Holt, an economist at Scotiabank, said in a research note.

http://www.farmfutures.com/dairy/does-c ... ariff-milk


Note to Mr. Holt. Trump never said it was 270% on everything.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:09 am

There is an intricate network of tariffs, taxes, limits and quotas on various goods that are all interconnected. It's a system balanced by give and take by both sides. It's extremely cynical and outright deceptive to single out a particular import for individual scrutiny just because you want to pander to a certain group (in this case dairy farmers) for votes.
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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Wabash » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:24 am

From the World Bank --JQP

Average tariff rates:

Canada: 0.8%
USA: 1.6%
Russia: 3.6%

So CANADA is the “unfair” one we are targeting with more tariffs?
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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby John Q. Public » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:43 am

The above post said so little I removed the link. I felt like removing the entire post.
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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Fordama » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:22 am

Ten percent of Canadian dairy consumption is from the U.S.

The United States restricts all imported dairy consumption to three percent.
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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Bick » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:41 am

Fordama wrote:Source of the post Ten percent of Canadian dairy consumption is from the U.S.

The United States restricts all imported dairy consumption to three percent.


Wasn't aware of that...the whole idea of tariffs / protectionism is very interesting and probably not well understood. Seems like "free trade" should really be FREE TRADE. Would love to get Mr. Carlson's take on this.

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby Fordama » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:49 am

Smaller producing countries do need to protect themselves to certain degrees. Otherwise they will simply get completely overwhelmed.

That's why I don't buy into the "the United States is a victim" in this discussion. We are the largest consumer market in the world--we should have a trade deficit overall. It's why consumer goods are less expensive here. We aren't "victims."
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

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Re: Dairy farmers eager for Trump to take aim at Canada's policies.

Postby John Q. Public » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:17 am

I don't think Donald really understand trade deficits. Or maybe he does but he doesn't think his audience does. They can be significant but not nearly the way he makes them out to be.
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