‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Hanna
Posts: 2709
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:11 pm

‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Hanna » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:05 pm

So much for the good feeling about that trade framework supposedly negotiated between Presidents Donald Trump and Xi Jinping on the weekend. Equity markets rallied on Monday following reports by U.S. officials that the U.S.-China dinner in Argentina represented tangible trade progress. But stocks gave it all back and then some on Tuesday, as the fine print seemed nonexistent and bond yields started to fall back to levels that often signal slower economic growth.

(snip)

But Chinese officials have been notably quiet and unspecific since the weekend about the commitments they made in Argentina. They haven’t even confirmed the 90-day negotiating deadline that Trump officials have stressed. In other words, who’s on first?

Then on Tuesday Mr. Trump belly-flopped into the debate, as he is wont to do. In a Twitter barrage, the President expressed optimism about his weekend meeting and the chances of a deal. But he added that “remember . . . I am a Tariff Man. When people or countries come in to raid the great wealth of our Nation, I want them to pay for the privilege of doing so. It will always be the best way to max out our economic power.” All that was missing was a leotard with a T on the chest and a cape.

Markets apparently didn’t see the super hero humor and promptly sold off. Perhaps they know that tariffs are taxes on commerce, and when you tax something you get less of it. Mr. T’s unveiling also hit on the day after the yield curve on some Treasurys began to invert—which can mean trouble. The economy is still strong enough to survive some uncertainty, but Tariff Man shouldn’t go to war with the laws of economics. He’ll lose.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/i-am-a-tar ... 1543965558 (paid subscription)



User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 17412
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby John Q. Public » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:07 pm

But investors did get a preview of what would happen if Donald were to stop with his "tariff" nonsense, and then the next day they got a preview of what investments to run like hell from if he does increase them. Tomorrow's futures say they're already staying away.

Any other president would have seen a message in the markets' performance, but not Tariff Man.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Omar Bongo
Posts: 7307
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:59 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Omar Bongo » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:11 pm

Image
"Trump is what he is, a floundering, inarticulate jumble of gnawing insecurities and not-at-all compensating vanities, which is pathetic."
George Will

"How stupid is our country?"
Donald Trump

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 17915
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Fordama » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:28 am

I remember when Republicans claimed that taxes on goods and services just get passed onto the consumer. Apparently not in Trumponomics.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 17412
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby John Q. Public » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:14 am

Dreading my next 401k statement. As if the last one wasn't bad enough.

Thanks Tariff Man.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 23021
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Wabash » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:40 am

Bick wrote:This is the lowest NKE has been in 3 mos.

800 pt drop today in the Dow? Yawn...wake me when we lose 4%

Does 4% over the last two days count? And this trading session isn't over yet.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

MDDad
Posts: 11863
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:24 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby MDDad » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:59 am

John Q. Public wrote:Dreading my next 401k statement. As if the last one wasn't bad enough.

Thanks Tariff Man.

Why would the market taking a dump kill your 401k? At your age, if you're still heavy in equities, you're getting some bad advice.

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 17412
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby John Q. Public » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:11 pm

I'm "light" in equities. But bonds aren't doing any better and the dollar's down. My mattress fund is about the only sure thing right now.

I just skimmed an article that says Merrill Lynch estimates that Tariff Man's trade wars have cost S&P investors about 6% for the year. Eyeballing the 5-year trend line looks like we're off around 12% from what it coulda shoulda been. WE'RE ALL DOOMED! :fan:

Link if anybody wants to read the editorial - https://www.marketwatch.com/story/now-w ... 2018-12-06
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Professor Fate
Posts: 4354
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:11 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Professor Fate » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:20 pm

Relax JQP. The stock market rallied big time in the last hour.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 17412
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby John Q. Public » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:36 pm

WOOHOO! We're back up to just a "normal" bad day. Bummer for those people who were trading this morning, though.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

User avatar
Vilepagan
Posts: 11837
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:07 am

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Vilepagan » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:39 pm

I fondly recall the day's when Republican's decried "uncertainty" in the markets. Relax JQP, a little uncertainty never hurt anyone. Did it?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

User avatar
John Q. Public
Site Admin
Posts: 17412
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:56 am

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby John Q. Public » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:00 pm

People who ignored the pundits (including the pundits, themselves) did pretty well under the Obama "uncertainty". The guy was the Rock of Gibraltar compared to Trump.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

Bick
Posts: 4795
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Bick » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:14 am

Wabash wrote:Does 4% over the last two days count? And this trading session isn't over yet.


It's called consolidation so long as it doesn't fall below 24,000. If it does, I'd expect a pullback to 22,000 - 50% of the run-up from 18,000 to 26,000.

Historical perspective usually gives the most objective view of what's taking place, assuming objectivity is what you're seeking.

https://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jo ... t-10-years

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 17915
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Fordama » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:35 am

I remember when Republicans used to hammer away with the "taxes on businesses and corporations are passed on to the consumer! taxes on businesses and corporations are passed on to the consumer!taxes on businesses and corporations are passed on to the consumer!taxes on businesses and corporations are passed on to the consumer!taxes on businesses and corporations are passed on to the consumer!taxes on businesses and corporations are passed on to the consumer!taxes on businesses and corporations are passed on to the consumer!taxes on businesses and corporations are passed on to the consumer!"

But now these taxes will make us rich!
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

User avatar
Wabash
Posts: 23021
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Wabash » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:47 am

Bick wrote:It's called consolidation so long as it doesn't fall below 24,000.


Which is where it is at right now.

Bick
Posts: 4795
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Bick » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:56 am

Ford, your water polo coach and I agree with you on this point. Not a fan of tariffs unless their sole purpose is to get the other countries to drop theirs - which in this case I believe is the end game. High stakes poker that most don't have the stomach for.

The complexities and outcomes of tariffs would be a good discussion topic. Just not on this board. Shoot me a note if you'd like to meet face to face about this, and I'll drive over. Might be fun to chat with you and your water polo coach.

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 17915
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Fordama » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:58 am

High stakes poker that working families are the ones who have to ante up.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

Bick
Posts: 4795
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Bick » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:02 am

Wabash wrote:Source of the post Which is where it is at right now.


Thank you for pointing that out. The link I provided is current as of 12/7.

Bick
Posts: 4795
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Bick » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:18 am

Fordama wrote:Source of the post High stakes poker that working families are the ones who have to ante up.


If we're sticking with the poker analogy, the blinds keep getting raised, and the stacks are shrinking. Eventually, your stack is so short, you can't play a hand.

Again, I'm not sure it's the right move, but I think the intent is proper as is playing from a position of strength.

User avatar
Fordama
Posts: 17915
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:12 pm

Re: ‘I Am a Tariff Man’ - WSJ Editorial

Postby Fordama » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:49 am

I'd feel better if the guy playing the hand didn't run his businesses into bankruptcy to get out of a tough spot.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

Return to “National”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests