Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

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Professor Fate
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Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Professor Fate » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:44 pm

Court allows Christian baker to sue Colorado for anti-religious hostility

The owner of Masterpiece Cakeshop can proceed with his lawsuit against the state of Colorado after a judge refused to dismiss the case.

Jack Phillips has accused the Colorado Civil Rights Commission of anti-religious bias because it punished him for refusing to bake a cake celebrating gender transition. Phillips, represented by Alliance Defending Freedom, filed suit when the state chose to prosecute him even after he won his case at the U.S. Supreme Court in June.

...The Colorado Civil Rights Commission said Phillips discriminated against Denver attorney Autumn Scardina because she's transgender. Phillips' shop refused to make a cake last year that was blue on the outside and pink on the inside after Scardina revealed she wanted it to celebrate her transition from male to female.

She asked for the cake on the same day the U.S. Supreme Court announced it would consider Phillips' appeal of the previous commission ruling against him. In that 2012 case, he refused to make a wedding cake for same-sex couple Charlie Craig and Dave Mullins.

...The judge said he thought the Supreme Court's ruling had more relevance in the current case than the state acknowledged and quoted from the justices' opinions during the hearing. He mentioned now-retired Justice Anthony Kennedy's conclusion that the commission had shown "hostility" toward religion.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/court ... li=BBnbcA1


Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Credo ut intelligam » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:20 pm

We can only hope he bankrupts these anti-religious bigots; other similar state commissions might learn a lesson.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:32 pm

Yeah, the people fighting against discrimination are the bigots... :roll:
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby John Q. Public » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:32 pm

Anybody care to quote me the Bible verse that covers sex change operations?
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Vilepagan
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Vilepagan » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:01 pm

Anyone care to quote me the Bible verse that anoints bakers with some religious significance?

Whatever happened to rendering unto Caesar and all that, professor?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Vilepagan » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:03 pm

Credo ut intelligam wrote:Source of the post We can only hope he bankrupts these anti-religious bigots...


Exactly how would that happen and why would it be desirable?
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Professor Fate
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Professor Fate » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:16 pm

John Q. Public wrote:Source of the post Anybody care to quote me the Bible verse that covers sex change operations?
Obviously there's nothing in the bible mentioning sex change operations. I'm sure the baker's religious beliefs in this case stem from transgenders trying to undo what God has done. You don't have to agree with his religious beliefs...you just have to allow him to follow them
Vilepagan wrote:Source of the post Anyone care to quote me the Bible verse that anoints bakers with some religious significance?

You are both looking in the wrong place. Look to the US Constitution. 1st Amendment.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Vilepagan » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:09 pm

Professor Fate wrote:Source of the post I'm sure the baker's religious beliefs in this case stem from transgenders trying to undo what God has done. You don't have to agree with his religious beliefs...you just have to allow him to follow them


As a Christian isn't he supposed to "render unto Caesar" and follow secular law?

That's the whole issue for me...at what point does his religious freedom come into conflict with the law and why are you anxious to give him a pass? It sets a bad precedent and unless you're willing to limit this "freedom" to Christians, you're going to open a big can of worms.

I wonder if this man truly believes that transgenders are trying to undo god's work how he must feel about cosmetic surgery, or for that matter, any sort of corrective surgery, the wearing of eyeglasses etc.

You're right that I don't have to agree with his religious beliefs, but I don't think our laws should cater to crazy people either.

I'd be willing to bet that you aren't quite so anxious to grant the same freedom to Muslims that wish to practice shariah law.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Credo ut intelligam » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:13 pm

Those who are trying to force the baker to communicate a message he objects to are TOTALITARIAN.

If you think a Jewish baker should be able to refuse to put BDS on a cake...
or a Muslim baker should be able to refuse to put an image of Muhammed on a cake...
or a black baker should be able to refuse to put "All Lives Matter" on a cake...
or an LBGTQ baker should be able to refuse to put "Marriage: One Man, One Woman" on a cake...

Then you are on the side of Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakeshop.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:32 pm

Still trying to portray the baker as the one who is being discriminated against?
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Omar Bongo » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:34 pm

And BTW where's the link for that ridiculous analogy?
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Vilepagan » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:34 pm

Credo ut intelligam wrote:Source of the post Those who are trying to force the baker to communicate a message he objects to are TOTALITARIAN.


Just want him to bake cakes for everyone equally, regardless of what the clients religious beliefs may be.

If you think a Jewish baker should be able to refuse to put BDS on a cake...


What's BDS?

or a Muslim baker should be able to refuse to put an image of Muhammed on a cake...


I think a Muslim baker could legitimately refuse that request as that's a legitimate affront to any Muslim, and it's clearly proscribed by Islam. It would be like demanding that they handle pork products.

or a black baker should be able to refuse to put "All Lives Matter" on a cake...


No, that's just stupid. Make the cake.

or an LBGTQ baker should be able to refuse to put "Marriage: One Man, One Woman" on a cake...


No, again, make the cake.

Then you are on the side of Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakeshop.


Yeah, I'm not. There is no legitimate claim that his being a Christian should prevent his baking a cake for the transgendered. IMO, his refusal stems from a personal belief, not a religious one.
There is no fire like passion, there is no shark like hatred, there is no snare like folly, there is no torrent like greed. - The Dhammapada

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby John Q. Public » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:39 pm

Credo ut intelligam wrote:Source of the post If you think a Jewish baker should be able to refuse to put BDS on a cake...

The majority of American Jews probably wouldn't have a problem with that.
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Professor Fate
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Professor Fate » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:27 pm

Vilepagan wrote:Source of the post As a Christian isn't he supposed to "render unto Caesar" and follow secular law?

So...if there were Christian guards at Dachau, should they have been following secular laws?

Vilepagan wrote:Source of the post Just want him to bake cakes for everyone equally, regardless of what the clients religious beliefs may be.

You still ignore the fact that he will make cakes for those people, or cupcakes, or donuts for that matter. Just not cakes with a message he doesn't believe is right.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby John Q. Public » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:37 pm

Pink and blue. Strong message.
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Professor Fate
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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Professor Fate » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:53 pm

That's all it was, no other message? Then all they had to do is say I want a blue cake with pink frosting. If they didn't tell him he was making a cake to celebrate something he thinks is wrong, then he/she would have gotten a blue cake with pink frosting.
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Credo ut intelligam » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:59 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:Still trying to portray the baker as the one who is being discriminated against?

Yes, that's exactly what's happening. This has always been about the message, not the person. It's about freedom of conscience and the freedom to resist being compelled to engage in speech.

If the government can force you to speak it's preferred ideas, then that government has become a tyranny. For a guy who has voiced resentment at being forced to make an oath to the Constitution, that should be a no brainer.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Credo ut intelligam » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:04 pm

BDS on the cake...

John Q. Public wrote:The majority of American Jews probably wouldn't have a problem with that.

I doubt it, but it's an irrelevant point. Fundamental rights aren't decided by majority opinion.

Are these the same American Jews who agree with the MN congresswoman about the "evil ways of Israel?"

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby Credo ut intelligam » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:09 pm

Omar Bongo wrote:Still trying to portray the baker as the one who is being discriminated against?

BTW, the Supreme Court disagrees with you on this case--twice now.

I suppose it's possible SCOTUS could be wrong. It's happened before: Plessy v. Ferguson, Roe v. Wade, Obergefell v. Hodges.

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Re: Court Allows Christian Baker to Sue

Postby John Q. Public » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:10 pm

Credo ut intelligam wrote:Source of the post Are these the same American Jews who agree with the MN congresswoman about the "evil ways of Israel?"

Very possible if she was talking about the current government. Bibi didn't have a lot of support here.
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