Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

broman
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Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby broman » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:26 pm

I picked up this book in pursuit of reading everything about Nazi Germany I can find...

Defying Hitler
Written in 1939 and unpublished until 2000, Sebastian Haffner's memoir of the rise of Nazism in Germany offers a unique portrait of the lives of ordinary German citizens between the wars. Covering 1907 to 1933, his eyewitness account provides a portrait of a country in constant flux: from the rise of the First Corps, the right-wing voluntary military force set up in 1918 to suppress Communism and precursor to the Nazi storm troopers, to the Hitler Youth movement; from the apocalyptic year of 1923 when inflation crippled the country to Hitler's rise to power.

These ideas caught my eye..

"Between the end of WWI and the rise of Hitler and the Nazi's, Germany had a series of revolutions, rapidly changing governments and an obsession with sports and competition. One group of people had finally settled into a regular routine and had some normalcy in their lives and developed their own personalities. The other group was intoxicated by war, sport, revolution, conflict and strong leadership. The latter group would become members the Nazi party." (The flip side would be the German Communist)

Anyway, I see some parallels when it comes to today in the United States and Europe.



Luca
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Luca » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:25 am

I think you mean Freikorps.
What parallels are those?..........Luca

Luca
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Luca » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:26 am

If you’re interested in reading everything you can about Nazi Germany – or maybe you’re more interested in the pre 1933 Weimar Republic era – there are lots of good books. Three of the best are:

Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer
Rise and fall of the Third Reich by William T Shirer
Berlin Diary by William T Shirer

You may have already read them - and they are not history books per se - but they are pretty fascinating inside accounts of what happened from roughly 1925 onwards. I Know the last one is available for free as an audiobook on YouTube and the first two may be. You can listen to them while you’re driving......Luca

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Fordama
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Fordama » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:06 am

I read the Rise and fall of the Third Reich way back in college. It's a page turner, but not a quick read! A thousand and something pages.
This country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them.---JFK

Luca
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Luca » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:12 am

Well, it had a pretty long way to fall...........Luca

MDDad
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby MDDad » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:26 am

Wabash wrote:Were any of them obsessed with high school football?

No, football was pretty much an American sport back then. But it is a known fact that Hitler posted the same rubbish on an internet forum 23,249 times, until the whole country went insane.

broman
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby broman » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:13 pm

Luca wrote:Source of the post You may have already read them - and they are not history books per se - but they are pretty fascinating inside accounts of what happened from roughly 1925 onwards.


Putting them on my list.

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Luca » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:04 pm

What were the parallels?..........Luca

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Wabash
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Wabash » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:12 pm

Luca wrote:Source of the post What were the parallels?..........Luca

A charismatic figure with followers who believe any nonsense he spouted. Despite its being bigly false or being an outright lie. See what I did there?....Wabash
Last edited by Wabash on Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

broman
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby broman » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:48 pm

Luca wrote:What were the parallels?..........Luca


The German people allowed the Nazi's to replace historical truth about German society and the events of WWI to justify the The Third Reich. Similar to how the current occupant of the White House can current false historical and current narratives and have people accept and defend them. Great example is how the German Evangelical Church integrated Nazi ideology with the Christianity.

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Red » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:23 pm

You failed broman….you meant the previous occupant of the White House. You are letting hate cloud your common sense and history.
Liberalism is like an out-of-control 5 year old at McDonalds. All the talking to and admonishment won't make a difference. They have no concept of right or wrong, they are nothing more than narcissists.

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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Red » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:27 pm

broman wrote:I picked up this book in pursuit of reading everything about Nazi Germany I can find...

Defying Hitler
Written in 1939 and unpublished until 2000, Sebastian Haffner's memoir of the rise of Nazism in Germany offers a unique portrait of the lives of ordinary German citizens between the wars. Covering 1907 to 1933, his eyewitness account provides a portrait of a country in constant flux: from the rise of the First Corps, the right-wing voluntary military force set up in 1918 to suppress Communism and precursor to the Nazi storm troopers, to the Hitler Youth movement; from the apocalyptic year of 1923 when inflation crippled the country to Hitler's rise to power.

These ideas caught my eye..

"Between the end of WWI and the rise of Hitler and the Nazi's, Germany had a series of revolutions, rapidly changing governments and an obsession with sports and competition. One group of people had finally settled into a regular routine and had some normalcy in their lives and developed their own personalities. The other group was intoxicated by war, sport, revolution, conflict and strong leadership. The latter group would become members the Nazi party." (The flip side would be the German Communist)

Anyway, I see some parallels when it comes to today in the United States and Europe.


Wow! Well written! You must be a writer.
Liberalism is like an out-of-control 5 year old at McDonalds. All the talking to and admonishment won't make a difference. They have no concept of right or wrong, they are nothing more than narcissists.

broman
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby broman » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 pm

Wow..

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John Q. Public
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby John Q. Public » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:09 pm

Maybe the quotation marks confused him.
Don't look at me, I just work here.

Luca
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Luca » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:21 pm

broman wrote:The German people allowed the Nazi's to replace historical truth about German society and the events of WWI to justify the The Third Reich. Similar to how the current occupant of the White House can current false historical and current narratives and have people accept and defend them. Great example is how the German Evangelical Church integrated Nazi ideology with the Christianity.



The Nazis promulgated the idea that the Aryans were the rightful master race and should rule over the Slavs and Romanians and Russians, etc. They taught that Jewish financiers controlled the world’s capital. They portrayed that a Jewish and communist “stab in the back” cost Germany a rightful victory in World War I and justified the eradication of both. They fabricated Czechoslovakian oppression of ethnic Germans and a Polish invasion of Germany to justify starting World War II

What are those parallels emanating from the Trump administration that you see?.....................Luca

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Wabash
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Wabash » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:44 pm

Your question answers itself in the quoted text........Wabash
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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Professor Fate
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Professor Fate » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:36 pm

Only after you drink the Trump haters' :koolaid:
Well, obviously we have giant butterflies in CA. They's climbin' in your windows, They's snatchin' your people up, tryin' to steal 'em. So y'all need to hide your kids, hide your stars, and hide your coaches cause they're grabin' everybody out here.

broman
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby broman » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:17 pm

Luca wrote:The Nazis promulgated the idea that the Aryans were the rightful master race and should rule over the Slavs and Romanians and Russians, etc. They taught that Jewish financiers controlled the world’s capital. They portrayed that a Jewish and communist “stab in the back” cost Germany a rightful victory in World War I and justified the eradication of both. They fabricated Czechoslovakian oppression of ethnic Germans and a Polish invasion of Germany to justify starting World War II

What are those parallels emanating from the Trump administration that you see?.....................Luca


The parallel is the process in how the Nazi convinced the German people to believe in conspiracies and fabricated information. First Nazi ideology became a legitimate alternative then it became the only reality. Is the "deep state" going after Trump no different than secret Jewish cabal that controls world capital?

Luca
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Luca » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:49 pm

Broman, my question remains what exactly are these "false historical and current narratives" that causes you to see parallels with Nazi Germany? That is, could you be a little more specific?..........Luca

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Wabash
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Re: Lessons from Sebastian Haffner

Postby Wabash » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:29 pm

You're joking, right?........Wabash
They told me if I voted for Hillary Clinton the president would be emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable. They were right. I voted for Hillary Clinton and got a president that is emotional, impulsive, and unpredictable.

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