Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

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TommyTrojan
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Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby TommyTrojan » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:13 pm

I'm a proponent of creating separate public/private playoff divisions not because I believe that private schools win CIF too often or some such, but because I believe that public and private schools play by different rules when it comes to students attending school. Privates, to the best of my knowledge, do not have an attendance area and must draw students in. Public schools, almost without exception, have an area that feeds into the school.

Given that, I wonder if many of the ills, railed against by people like myself, with how high school sports have changed over the past decade or so actually stem from the removal of the larger private schools from a mixed league and with the creation of the Trinity League. Up until the recent changes to the playoff format/division placement, the Trinity got 3 teams into the playoffs and likely a 4th. This put tremendous pressure on coaches in the Trinity to win or risk getting fired at a school where the desire to succeed in sports was seen as a way to attract kids and fill seats (which isn't to say that public school coaches don't get fired for not winning....). So you recruit. Run youth camps. Build bigger and more expensive facilities. Partner with groups to get kids on your campus who can play and help you win. Hire coaches whose sole job is to go out to watch youth teams play. Pay coaches big money to make sure you win, and fire them when you don't.

Had these schools remained in mixed leagues would that pressure to win at all costs have existed? It certainly seems to have created an arms race between schools in that league which has also had an outward push to other schools trying to keep up.



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TommyTrojan
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby TommyTrojan » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:14 pm

And none of this is to say that there aren't a myriad of other factors contributing to the changes. Just that the creation of the Trinity may have played a role, and I think, a large one.

daddyooo
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby daddyooo » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:36 pm

Parallel is the Mission League in LA. Doesn't seem like it's quite as crazy.

There are other schools private/public that want to play the game (Oaks Christian, Calabasas, Westlake, Mission Viejo, etc). Not too many willing to run bus fleets to compete though.

ColSixPack
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby ColSixPack » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:51 pm

High school sports was heading this way regardless. The formation of the Trinity might have expedited the transformation, but at the heart of it all is motivation for playing the games in the first place. How many of these kids actually LOVE the sport they play? I can't remember the last time I had a conversation with an athlete, or an athlete's parent, and the conversation was about "US"....meaning the team. It's always about "ME", what are you doing for me?

BuckW
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby BuckW » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:01 pm

The problem is not the Trinity League it is Mater Dei and Bosco. The other Trinity League teams are inferior to public schools like MV and CC. The 4 county all star teams with their rent a player programs make it impossible for others to compete. It is time for the other Trinity teams to refuse to play Bosco and MD. This just happened in a private school league in Maryland. The league refused to play St. Francis which has become a win at all cost program like MD. I'm sure Hartigan at SM would be willing. He forfeited all his teams Trinity League games when he took over at JSerra in 06.

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TommyTrojan
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby TommyTrojan » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:21 pm

Buck I disagree. The other schools in the Trinity at one time or the other over the past decade have all been a part of what is going on. Before Bosco was what it is today, Servite won with kids from all down the freeway, SM has been putting lots of money into its facilities and firing coaches, JSerra was built seemingly for the purpose of being a dominant athletic program and OLu went from D13 to D1 by bringing in kids. Today it easy to point at SJB and MD, but there is plenty to go around. And not just at the Trinity.

I think some of the publics certainly would do what is being done at the privates if they could figure out how and come up with the money for it. Some of them have been bringing kids in from all over, just usually in different ways than running shuttles.

BuckW
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby BuckW » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:41 pm

You put SM in the South Coast League and they are a 2nd or 3rd place team. They have a losing record against MV. I believe they are 2-4. They are 1-1 against Tesoro and I believe losing record against San Clemente. SM has a great weight room but that's about it for football. All the other South Coast teams have home stadiums. Unlike MD and Bosco, SM needs tuition and fees paying football families to stay in business.
Last edited by BuckW on Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TommyTrojan
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby TommyTrojan » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:24 pm

Fair enough. However I don't think the stadium thing is as big a deal as you might. And I would argue that the arms race in the Trinity has gone way beyond football. SM certainly has tried to do everything it can to attract kids from South County but is likely at a bit of a disadvantage given its location more than any other factor (OLu I would say runs into a size issue, hence the plan years ago to build Lu South off Bake Pkwy and make it big. Then the market crashed)

daddyooo
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby daddyooo » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:31 pm

If I am correct OLu was looking at buying a 2nd campus (was a junior HS) right near their current location. Did this ever come to fruition?

mdnc1994
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby mdnc1994 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:45 am

OLU was looking to expand, but they were going to have a 30 year lease at the property off of Meats & Canal, the old Peralta Jr High site, as a sports & science campus, w/a football facility, a new basketball facility, & possible baseball, tennis, & swim facilities. This was as of 2016-2017, but seems that OLU has taken down any reference to it, so could be shuttered.

daddyooo
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby daddyooo » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:51 am

agree that the arms race extends beyond football. Overall quality of TL basketball is higher than in the past-while MD is still MD they have lost to Bosco in league the last 2 years and there were 4 TL teams in D1/Open basketball and the 5th (Orange Lutheran) is a good bet to win 2AA. The girls show similar-2 Open Division teams, 1 D-1 (JSerra-who if they didn't have some key departures to Orangewood Academy and SM would have been at the least a contender in D-1 and possibly Open Division also), and OLu and SM good bets to make the 2AA and 2A finals respectively.

Same in other sports- TL girls soccer possibly tops in SS, same for volleyball, same for swimming/water polo. JSerra aggressive in hiring top-class coaches for both lacrosse (away from SM!) and water polo.

SK80
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby SK80 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:21 am

Agree @D.Doo on the race to arms extends across all sports. But there are still some small publics fighting toe to toe with Trinity.... CDM's Girl Water Polo stuns D1 32 ranked OLU in last nights semi's....! :thumbsup: These wins are especially sweet because the Trinity League probably hits water Polo and Volleyball the hardest at CDM.



CDM_OLU.png

Mr. Grady
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Re: Did the creation of the Trinity League help cause some of the problems plaguing HS sports?

Postby Mr. Grady » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:21 pm

Yes. It did.

When MD was in the South Coast league, SM in the Sea View and Servite in the Golden Goose Leagues they only needed to be talented enough to compete and win against those teams.

When the 4-team Serra/ 4-team Del Rey arrangement was formed in 1999 there still really wasn't THAT must difference in talent between those three teams. In fact the most athletically talented team (SJB) was for years the worst of the four Serra members largely due to inept coaching.

The creation of the 6-team Serra league from 2001-05 was probably the most balanced and competitive that league has ever been.

Financial aid at the time might have been a few thousand dollars max to a few kids. Today? Holy cow. It's a full ride for "A" classes players.

The realignment of the Serra League into the Trinity League for the 2006 season brought in two outsiders and this forever changed the way those teams approached talent accumulation and facilities. JSerra started from scratch and tried all sorts of creative ways to attract talent. OLu had the benefit of a peculiar academic program that was so un-rigorous that it made everyone wonder how they could possibly be credentialed. Those two were more disruptive than anyone realizes.

Then the impossible happened. First OLu, then Servite, then SM, then Bosco won state titles. By 2014-16 JSerra looked to be on the cusp. Fan's expectations went through the roof. Mater Dei could not stomach this they made adjustments.

Now here we are.

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