ELECTION 2020

[Omar Bongo]

Per Chris Cillizza, the three best shots of the night:

1. On the coronavirus, Biden mocked Trump's line that "we're learning to live with it" by saying, "We're dying with it."

2. After an extended back-and-forth over their families and allegations of corruption, Biden turned to the camera and said: "It's not about his family or my family. It's about your family."

3. And when the debate turned to race, Biden got this line off about Trump: "This guy has a dog whistle as big as a fog horn."



https://us.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/ ... index.html

[Wabash]

Electoral-vote.com sums up the paradoxical portrayal of Biden by the Trump campaign.

Which is he today?

Yet another problem with Trump's presentation—and it's been a problem the whole campaign, though it was particularly noticeable last night—is that he's never committed to a consistent theory of who and what Biden is. Half of the time, the President portrays his opponent as a doddering old fool who did absolutely nothing during his 47 years in politics. And the other half of the time, he frames Biden as a Moriarity-like kingpin who bears personal and sole responsibility for the 1994 crime bill, the Obama administration's immigration policy, H1N1, and a whole litany of other things, while at the same time pulling vast numbers of corrupt strings in countries like Russia, China, and Ukraine. Either Biden is Michael Corleone or he's Fredo Corleone, but he can't be both. Undoubtedly, the base has no issue with the inconsistency, but it's going to be hard to sell too many other voters when you're peddling two such contradictory framings of who your opponent is.

[John Q. Public]

Herman Cain passed away this summer...is there another?

I think there's 19 left, although I'm not sure how recently they've called roll.

Anybody else noticed that when Don says he's "done more for Black people than anyone besides Lincoln" it's about sentencing reform and nothing else? Because the only thing on Black Americans' minds is how soon they get out of jail.

[broman]

I watched FOX NEWS post debate and two trends occurred. Most of the "news" people had the debate a draw or observed that Trump did better than the first debate. Pro-Trump spin, but not to bad. Hannity comes on next and you are in a different place and time. I read a recent article that FOX is internally dealing with a scenario were the "news" desk calls the election or a state for Biden and the personalities that drive the ratings say otherwise.

[John Q. Public]

I saw pointed out that the money that Donald's campaign is running low on is also the money he'd need to challenge any elections he will undoubtedly call "rigged." He and Hannity will do a lot of complaining but he'll only be able to legally challenge a couple, at best. Maybe.

[joefutbol]

Hannity comes on next and you are in a different place and time.

If you have an Audible account this book is free right now - "Hoax: Donald Trump, Fox News, and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth."

The cirlce jerk and news loop between Fox and the White House is pure insanity.

[John Q. Public]

Quick! Name the "+3."

Pointed out by NBC and CNN, Donald's debate performance was aimed at Hannity fans but not at people who aren't already in the cult.

• "The laptop" - Faux "News" fans and Q-followers think it holds explosive information tying Biden to all sorts of nefarious activities. Average people might know that there's some laptop that belonged to Biden's son or that there were some possibly fake emails that were allegedly on it or that there was a story about it in the NY Post that the people who wrote it thought it was so dodgy they wouldn't put their names on it. Otherwise, most people think it's a nothingburger.
• "AOC+3" - Um... let's see... um... that Muslim lady... and the other Muslim lady... and... um... don't tell me, I'll get it....
• "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" - Mmmmm! Breakfast! Never heard it otherwise.
• "Russia, Russia, Russia" - Marcia, Marcia, Marcia.

Meanwhile, Biden spoke in whole sentences about issues anybody could understand and relate to.

[broman]

Stumbled across this guy, Mark Blyth professor of Economics of at Brown University. In 2016 he predicted the rise of a person like Trump and how Trump was able to use economics and racial grievance to build a winning coalition. The unifier being anger and righteous indignation. Fast forward to 2020, his analysis is that anger ultimately turns into exhaustion for the independents and the center right.

[Omar Bongo]

Biden Campaign Mocks Trump With 'Covid Plan' Domain After Debate

Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden mocked President Trump's plan for managing the COVID-19 pandemic with the release of a new website following the final presidential debate between the two Thursday night.



Go here...

https://www.trumpcovidplan.com/

...and you get this:

TrumpCovidPlan.com

Not Found
The Trump plan to defeat the Coronavirus and reopen safely does not exist.

Learn More

[John Q. Public]

If you click "Learn More" and then "Next" it's actually kind of a slick little slideshow thingy.

[broman]

Highlights of Trump North Carolina Speech

People are saying Merry Christmas again...
Our numbers on Covid are incredible...
All I hear is Covid, Covid, Covid...
We have higher cases because of testing...
We made America safe again....


If we can't beat this fool.....

[Wabash]

People are saying Merry Christmas again...

They did before.

Our numbers on Covid are incredible...

Incredibly bad.

All I hear is Covid, Covid, Covid...

Because people are dying

We have higher cases because of testing...

Math is hard.

We made America safe again....

It was safe before

[ventura]

I'm telling you things are weird out there. I want there to be as little chance as possible for either side to claim a fraudulent election. This isn't a partisan issue.

Is anyone else worried about this? My mail in ballot says that the polling place is open. It's confusing about whether or not you can vote at the polling place or it's just open for you to drop off your already-filled in ballot.

Joe - you seem to be confident in this whole process. Do you have credible information about who receives/processes these ballots, and are all concerned parties there to verify?

I've looked through the previous responses to my concerns. There are very few things more crucial to our country than an honest, verifiable election, and again, that's not a partisan issue. Moreover, if either side has room to question the outcome, we are in for a horrible **** show.

[joefutbol]

It's confusing about whether or not you can vote at the polling place or it's just open for you to drop off your already-filled in ballot.

Both, probably.

Joe - you seem to be confident in this whole process. Do you have credible information about who receives/processes these ballots, and are all concerned parties there to verify?

No, but it's going to be the same people and the same process as... always. So yeah, I'm confident the votes in this election will be counted the same as they've been counted in every other election we've had.

There are very few things more crucial to our country than an honest, verifiable election, and again, that's not a partisan issue.

I agree. And if we see some nonpartisan evidence or some nonpartisan reasons that the results should be questioned then we'll be able to talk about it. But I don't expect that to happen.

I've asked the question dozens of times, and still have zero answers. HOW is voter fraud committed at the polls? HOW is voter fraud committed using mail-in ballots? If I hear a logical explanation or hell, any explanation at all, I will gladly address it. I've been holding my breath for years.

[ventura]

Joe - with regard to my voter ID desire, I've answered about vote harvesting. You evidently don't agree that's a form of fraud.

I've answered that while not perfect, presenting an ID at a polling place to a live person, having that person mark you off in front of your eyes, passes the eye test for me more than mail in. One is equal to the other in your eyes?

You think voter ID is voter suppression, and I don't necessarily agree that having little or no responsibility connected with your right to vote is a positive. Voting is a privilege, it should be valued as a privilege, and if one can't realize that and act responsibly in advance to get their vote in, they shouldn't vote.

I can't prove a negative. If everyone connected with vote counting isn't super dedicated to honesty/integrity, how could you be sure blocks of votes aren't just thrown away on the mail in system? Sure, the same thing could happen at polling places, I guess, but wouldn't you admit this mail in deal is untested? If this were just any ol' election I wouldn't be as scared. It ain't that. There's fighting in the streets already. I'm afraid any way it goes is going to lead to fighting, and mail in voting will be cited, with either a Trump or Biden victory.

As with many of the arguments I post on this board, I'd love to be wrong. I'd love to believe the election will be as honest as any could be. I'd love to believe the government is good, and they have our backs on COVID. I just don't.

I honestly believe there are those so enraged by Trump, and so convinced he's evil, that it's conceivable they'd think it's for the greater good to cheat. Hell, there are probably some on the conservative side that would do that as well. Mail in voting helps that argument, IMO.

[Wabash]

ventura, the flaw in your argument is the group that should be leading the charge to fund and provide resources for election security did just the opposite. Given those actions I have to believe they do not feel it is as important as you claim.

From The Hill (02/11/2010);

Senate GOP blocks three election security bills

Senate Republicans blocked an effort by Democrats to unanimously pass three election security-related bills Tuesday, marking the latest attempt to clear legislation ahead of the November elections

Democrats tried to get consent to pass two bills that require campaigns to alert the FBI and Federal Election Commission (FEC) about foreign offers of assistance, as well as legislation to provide more election funding and ban voting machines from being connected to the internet.

But Sen. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) opposed each of the requests. Under the Senate's rules, any one senator can ask for unanimous consent to pass a bill, but any one senator can object and block their requests.

Blackburn accused Democrats of trying to move the bills knowing that GOP lawmakers would block them and giving them fodder for fundraising efforts.

[broman]

Voting is a privilege

[joefutbol]

Joe - with regard to my voter ID desire, I've answered about vote harvesting. You evidently don't agree that's a form of fraud.

I don't. What definition of fraud would ballot harvesting meet?

I can't prove a negative. If everyone connected with vote-counting isn't super dedicated to honesty/integrity, how could you be sure blocks of votes aren't just thrown away on the mail-in system?

In California, you can track your ballot. If a significant number of ballots are thrown out, the odds it goes unchecked or unnoticed could literally be zero. Can you give me an example of how someone could throw out enough ballots to make a difference and we wouldn't find out?

wouldn't you admit this mail in deal is untested

I wouldn't agree. It's been around in one form or another since the 1600s. Can you tell me how it hasn't been tested? Mail-in-ballots are filled out, sent, and counted identically to mail-in-ballots. You think there might be a reason Republicans are saying one is safe and the other isn't? I bet if we check the statistics on who is most likely to vote by absentee ballot and who is most likely to vote by mail-in ballot we can get to the bottom of it.

There's fighting in the streets already. I'm afraid any way it goes is going to lead to fighting, and mail in voting will be cited, with either a Trump or Biden victory.

I don't think it happens with a Trump victory. I also don't think that's a good enough reason to restrict access to voting.

As with many of the arguments I post on this board, I'd love to be wrong. I'd love to believe the election will be as honest as any could be. I'd love to believe the government is good, and they have our backs on COVID. I just don't.

I don't care if I'm right or wrong... I'm probably wrong as often as I'm right. I care about the truth. That's why I've asked the same question trying to get an answer over and over and over again. It's a sincere question.

I honestly believe there are those so enraged by Trump, and so convinced he's evil, that it's conceivable they'd think it's for the greater good to cheat. Hell, there are probably some on the conservative side that would do that as well. Mail in voting helps that argument, IMO.

If you can explain to me how they could possibly cheat and get away with it, that would help the argument 10,000x more.

I've answered that while not perfect, presenting an ID at a polling place to a live person, having that person mark you off in front of your eyes, passes the eye test for me more than mail in. One is equal to the other in your eyes?

I really don't care either way. If you can explain it, then great. I'd agree voter fraud is a problem and we need to address it. But if you can't then... how is it a problem?

Let's say you, Ventura, are one of those people you described who think Trump is evil and you think cheating is for the greater good. You're intent on cheating and on your way to the polls and there is no voter ID check in place. What do you do?

[Omar Bongo]

Moreover, if either side has room to question the outcome, we are in for a horrible **** show.

Let's be honest, your attempts to appear impartial notwithstanding. There's only one side that's sure to question the outcome and cause a "****show" and we all know it...

[Vilepagan]

Do you have credible information about who receives/processes these ballots, and are all concerned parties there to verify?

The same people who processed and verified past elections where there was almost no voter fraud at all...why are you trying to convince people the system is suddenly suspect? It worked fine up til now but here you are parroting trump and trying to scare people...why?