Racism and the Economy

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Racism and the Economy

Post by John Q. Public »

Donald probably hates that the Federal Reserve is putting this on but it sounds like an interesting event. Next Wednesday at 11:00 AM to 1:30 Pacific Time, pre-registration required and it seems to be aimed at business professionals but it's a subject that needs to be discussed because it's been sorely lacking in most people's education, even at the college level.

It might be a little dry but it sounds like it might be worth the time, just for the knowledge that might be gained. Hopefully it will be written about somewhere other than Beitbart.
Understanding the implications of structural racism in America’s economy and advancing actions to improve economic outcomes for all.

Racism forms the foundation of inequality in our society; it limits opportunity for people of color and threatens the health of our economy. While the global pandemic has intensified racial and economic disparities, the killing of George Floyd has provoked people from all walks of life to address the systems and structures that enable and perpetuate these outcomes.

The Federal Reserve Banks of Atlanta, Boston, and Minneapolis have partnered to present a series of virtual events where community, business, and academic leaders will examine the economic impact of racism and advance bold ideas and concrete actions to achieve an economy that makes opportunity available to everyone.

The kickoff event on Wednesday, October 7, 2020, will be the first in a series over the next several months exploring context and actions to address systemic racism in employment, housing, education, criminal justice, and other topics.

Raphael Bostic, Neel Kashkari, and Eric Rosengren, the presidents of the Federal Reserve Banks of Atlanta, Minneapolis, and Boston invite you to join them for the virtual event, featuring nationally recognized experts:

Angela Glover Blackwell, PolicyLink
Ursula Burns, former Xerox Corporation
Geoffrey Canada, Harlem Children’s Zone
Glenn Loury, Brown University
Carmen Rojas, Marguerite Casey Foundation
Kai Ryssdal, Marketplace - Moderator

https://www.minneapolisfed.org/events/2 ... koff-event
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Re: Racism and the Economy

Post by joefutbol »

Thanks, I'm looking forward to it. But it's starting at 1pm Eastern so 10am Pacific.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

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Hey, I wasn't a math major. :oops:
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Re: Racism and the Economy

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I missed this but here's the replay. Two hours and 23 minutes. It might take me a while to get through all of it.

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Re: Racism and the Economy

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The discussion starts at 7:00. I made it to 28:45 before the Foreign Babe made me turn the speakers off. Back to it tomorrow, I guess.

A couple interesting points by the first speaker, keeping in mind that it's about the economic impact of racism:
1. Freeing the slaves was like firing all the workers in a number of "trades"; they didn't just pick cotton;
2. Lack of access to credit was a major handicap in the development of the Black middle class and it was a big factor in the wealth gap that's still with us today.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

Post by ventura »

Where was Glenn Loury?

What I wouldn't pay to have Malcom X on this panel.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

Post by ShiftyMutt »

As I understand it, because of Jim Crow laws and banking policies, black soldiers returning from WW2 also didn’t have access to the GI Bill which would have given them a free college education, and the ability to get an FHA loan for a house. Which set the path for economic and social failure for many.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

Post by ventura »

Shifty - not sure if your understanding is correct. Whether or not it is, can you think of anything else that might have had an affect on economic and social failure for blacks, other than systemic racism?
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Re: Racism and the Economy

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What makes you think his understanding isn't correct?

Can you think of anything else that may have had an affect on economic and social failure for blacks?
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Re: Racism and the Economy

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Shifty's understanding is correct, although there were a handful of exceptions.

As for the question, no, not really. Most anything you could name goes back to it.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

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Oh, and I did get to watch the rest of the video.

An interesting conclusion was that low interest rates and quantitative easing don't do squat for the people at the bottom of the economic curve and can actually hurt them more than it helps - low interest rates, especially. For that reason, at least the three satellite branches in the discussion have decided that the Fed needs to look at the entire economy, rather than the median, which they've always based their policies on.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

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joefutbol wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:30 pm Can you think of anything else that may have had an affect on economic and social failure for blacks?
Joe - if you can't come up with the obvious and fundamental reason blacks have suffered since WWII, I'll know for sure what a great job education in the last sixty years has done

if you don't come up with this plain-as-the-nose-on-your face answer, it's got less to do with intelligence (you probably have a much higher IQ than I do) - it's got everything to do with indoctrination -this is THE reason for black struggles in our time, and it's bigger than all the others that might be out there, combined, by a lot

Malcom X was onto it before he was murdered (maybe it's why he was murdered) - he was a fascinating, dynamic intellect who was really coming into some interesting thought when he was cut down
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Re: Racism and the Economy

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I'm far too young to remember Malcom X, and my education has all been at private, conservative institutions. There is no "the reason," and you're trying to simplify an incredibly complex issue that inarguably started with, and inarguably (in my mind) is still being perpetuated by, systemic racism. Systemic racism isn't "the" reason either. What I cannot wrap my mind around is the fact that there are people out there who believe it's all made up and doesn't exist.

And I sincerely do not know what the obvious and fundamental reason is why blacks have suffered since WWII. But one of the few things I'm knowledgable about is finance. By 2030 over $60 trillion, trillion with a t, will be transferred by baby boomers to their heirs. And roughly 30% of all wealth is transferred through real estate. When black people were literally refused loans for no reason other than skin color and prohibited from living in areas where housing was desirable and appreciated significantly in value, what kind of gap and disadvantage do you think that alone created 30, 40, and 50 years later? That's just wealth transferred through real estate. That's one of the many complex issues that you'd have to actually learn about to understand.

Very few people actively challenge their beliefs, truly listen to opposing arguments, or do any amount of research and thinking for themselves. It's far easier to keep thinking the same way and call the other side crazy.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

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Whatever this (obvious) mystery reason is, it was an idea of someone who died two generations ago, before the Voting Rights Act and long before the Fair Housing Act, when Northern blacks were still corralled in ghettos, Southern blacks picked fruit and lived in run down houses on the other side of town, sharecropping was still a thing and when the black middle class was all but non-existent.

Malcolm X had some interesting ideas but he also had some misguided ones (Black Nationalism, anyone?) and some that don't really apply 55 years later.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

Post by broman »

Couple of other things to consider, focusing on Southern California.

The Black middle class was/is primarily blue collar. When those industrial jobs went away and stopped paying middle class wages, middle class growth stagnated. The strongest sector for Black folk continues to be in State, County, and City employment.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

Post by ventura »

So I don't come on here regularly and I can't post much during a full work week. Sorry for the long response, but I find this subject interesting. As a Catholic, I reject with all my soul any racism I'm charged with, and I will not apologize for being white. A person truly following Christ's commands could not be a racist. There are plenty of "Christians" and "Catholics" in name that don't follow Christ's commands, of course.

I'm not a democrat or a republican. I have more disdain for the Bush clan than the Clinton/Obama clans, though it's a horse race from the sheer corruption standpoint. I haven't voted for a republican since Reagan, before 2016. I voted for Trump as a middle finger to both parties, although I really did like what he claimed he'd do in connection with getting Americans out of endless wars (sigh....didn't happen). Politicians seem to be 90% the bottom of the barrel on the human scale, IMO, and Trump came in as a business man. Even if not my type of business man.

anyways......
joefutbol wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:43 pm you're trying to simplify an incredibly complex issue
I disagree. It's not that complex.
joefutbol wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:43 pm I'm far too young to remember Malcom X
I was 9 when he was murdered. The race issue has been a human problem since the dawn of civilization, of course. Human history is: the people in power enslave the people they've conquered, no matter what the race/creed/color is.
joefutbol wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:43 pm And I sincerely do not know what the obvious and fundamental reason is why blacks have suffered since WWII
It's the break up of the black family. When a father abandons his wife and children, check out the left-behind boy's statistics on drug addiction, suicide, gang affiliation and all the attendant mayhem connected with it, general economic success, etc. etc. Generation to generation, it perpetuates itself like a deadly disease. On a larger scale, there is an overwhelming attack on the family unit, an unmistakable move by the mainstream media to dislodge the traditional nuclear family. The nuclear family is THE KEY to freedom, and only a totalitarian state will fill the void if it is eviscerated.
joefutbol wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:43 pm Very few people actively challenge their beliefs, truly listen to opposing arguments
Absolutely true. Why in heaven's name doesn't CNN and Fox news become one network and have a true exchange of ideas? It would be a smashing money making success - ratings off the charts! Head scratcher. As it is, both are pretty damn boring.
John Q. Public wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:16 pm Malcolm X had some interesting ideas but he also had some misguided ones (Black Nationalism, anyone?) and some that don't really apply 55 years later.
Truth lasts longer than 55 years. And actually, black nationalism sounded very interesting to me, if you stipulate there is no violence to other's rights involved.

Here's a couple nuggets I found from Malcom X right before he was done in:

"The worst enemy that the Negro have is this white man that runs around here drooling at the mouth professing to love Negros, and calling himself a liberal, and it is following these white liberals that has perpetuated problems that Negros have. If the Negro wasn’t taken, tricked, or deceived by the white liberal then Negros would get together and solve our own problems."

LBJ purportedly said "we'll have these (n-word) voting for us for the next 200 years" around the time he was to sign the Civil Rights Act. The left denies he said it, the right swears he said it. Big surprise. But it's generally accepted that he was pretty rough when it came to race relations up until the time JFK was killed. Fast forward to Biden's comment recently, something to the affect that if you don't vote for him "you ain't black". It seems like some force wants blacks on a certain type of plantation. Justice Thomas said of his Supreme Court hearing "this is a high tech lynching".....it was headed up by Joe Biden.

Regarding John Q's problem with black nationalism, do you have a problem with the Asian communities binding together toward economic success? They're not clamoring for special treatment, and I don't think they've had any special treatment (unless it's against them), yet within a couple of generations after transplanting to the US I think the stats bear out they do well. Why? Asian nationalism?

Malcom X says: "When you are equal with another person, the problem of integration doesn’t even arise. It doesn’t come up. The Chinese in this country aren’t asking for integration. The Japanese aren’t asking for integration. The only minority in America that’s asking for integration is the so-called Negro, primarily because he is inferior, not inherently inferior, but he’s economically, socially, politically inferior. And this exists because he has never tried to stand on his own two feet and do something for himself. He has filled the role of a beggar."

Strong words, to be sure, Joe. But there are scores of blacks in the last 200 years that you'll never read about that prove Malcom's "not inherently inferior" comment to be an understatement. One is the grandfather of Supreme Court Justice Thomas. If you haven't seen his documentary "Created Equal", see it, please, to get Thomas's take on what he owes to this man. And how he catapulted his grandson to the Supreme Court with the upbringing he gave him. Or read Thomas's memoir "My Grandfather's Son" if you have more time.

Joe, if you truly believe you've listened to other's arguments, I'd be pleased to hear that you are acquainted in a real way with black scholars like Tom Sowell and Walter Williams. Or more controversial pundits like Larry Elder and Candace Owens. Sowell though might be of particular interest as he is an economist, and brilliant.

This from Walter Williams:
"According to the 1938 Encyclopaedia of the Social Sciences, that year only 11 percent of black children were born to unwed mothers. As late as 1950, female-headed households constituted only 18 percent of the black population. Today it’s close to 70 percent."

To say that this is because of systemic racism in, for example, real estate, is like saying let's fix the roof when the entire ground floor is in flames. The tattered state of the black family unit is THE fundamental problem. No one seems to know about it?

One final gem from Malcom X regarding integration. He was giving a talk with question/answer afterward. He was SO intelligent, a dynamic speaker, and an incredibly quick draw as well:

"In his speech, Malcolm had spoken of black tenants living in Harlem, while their landlords “lived on the Grand Concourse” (a large, once fashionable street in the west Bronx, then almost exclusively Jewish). In the question period, Jimmy Wechsler bounced up, and pointed out that Malcolm’s remark had “anti-Semitic” implications. “Oh,” replied Malcolm in fine mock indignation: “Are you telling me that only Jews live on the Grand Concourse? Why that’s terrible; that’s ‘segregation’; that needs to be investigated!”

America is moving away from "one nation, under God". The Judeo-Christian ethic is responsible, really, for this very forum. Abandoning it will vanquish our freedom. Look at the stuff that gets taken off youtube, twitter, et al, for being judged unsuitable.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

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ventura wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:58 pm On a larger scale, there is an overwhelming attack on the family unit, an unmistakable move by the mainstream media to dislodge the traditional nuclear family. The nuclear family is THE KEY to freedom, and only a totalitarian state will fill the void if it is eviscerated.
In what way?

Sowell and Williams both identify as libertarians. The most farcical economic theory ever.

When someone tells me they are a libertarian they basically admit they are clueless.

A friend of mine called them the sluts of the political spectrum. They want to sleep with everyone and commit to no one.

I always ask the question of a libertarian.

Where has that ever been tried and worked for the betterment of the majority of the population?

I never get a straight answer if I get one at all.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

Post by ventura »

@ Wabash - In what way? A child deserves a father and a mother. A society that doesn't wholeheartedly support that will fall to totalitarianism. Boys without fathers, especially, become destructive, and pay it forward.

I like some of the ideas of libertarianism - you know the whole do no harm thing, but I wouldn't call myself a libertarian. I definitely don't think the fed has a right to my money, with the exception of defending against actual foreign aggression, and maybe some interstate roads (off the top of my head).

My politics is more of a "as we move away from God, we move toward disaster", in the Solzhenitsyn vein.

Nice attack there, Wabash. Not surprising. Group people rather than respond. You didn't answer too many of my points. Not surprising, as well.
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Re: Racism and the Economy

Post by Wabash »

I really do not care to get into a point by point discussion of your earlier screed.

I do know that no other group of individuals has been the victim or target of systemic racism more than African Americans.

I lived in LA during the 80's when crack cocaine was ripping through the African American neighborhoods. All of those young men had their lives ruined because the response was to criminalize their behavior and punish them. Destroying their lives in the process.

We zoom ahead 30 years and there is a heroin epidemic that is ravaging the white suburban children of south OC. The response is markedly different. We need to be compassionate. That one mistake should not ruin their lives. That they should be put into a treatment program to address their illness. Most importantly, there is no criminal record to follow them around for the rest of their lives.

Multiply that out by just about every urban neighborhood in the country and you have your answer as to why the nuclear family in the African American community is under siege and has been for some time.

And do not get me started on the disparate treatment by law enforcement. I had white classmates in high school and college that did drugs. For some reason the cops would let them go when they discovered the occasional bag of weed. No record, no problem.

As far as libertarianism. It is a philosophy that chooses to ignore the responsibility of society.

You said;
ventura wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:32 pm I definitely don't think the fed has a right to my money, with the exception of defending against actual foreign aggression, and maybe some interstate roads (off the top of my head).
First point. You just made two exceptions. Secondly and more importantly, you may want to read the Constitution that we agree (as a social compact) to govern us.

Art. 1, Sec. 8 states (among many things);

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States......

So actually the fed does have a right to your money.

I will ask you. Where has libertarianism ever been tried?
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Re: Racism and the Economy

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The topic isn't Libertarianism.
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