Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

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ShiftyMutt
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Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by ShiftyMutt »

Should Trump be impeached or should they invoke the 25th? I'm conflicted on what's better in the short and long term. If he were impeached he can't run again, I think many republicans would be happy to support impeachment for that reason, especially those that have 2024 aspirations. But if the 25th is invoked does it shield him from anything? And how does it work for self pardons or having Pence pardon him?

I think by just starting the action he would just resign.
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by Wabash »

25th. Faster. It requires his cabinet lackeys show courage. So it probably not happen.
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

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I have no illusions about the recent cabinet level resignations.

This allows them to avoid having to take a 25th Amendment vote.
Last edited by Wabash on Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

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Exactly why I think they resigned. Nothing to actually do with principles.
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by Fordama »

Image
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by Wabash »

Perfect.
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by Fordama »

If I understand this correctly, the problem with using the 25th Amendment instead of impeachment is that if he was impeached and convicted he would be barred from holding office again. I don't know if that's true if he were removed through the 25th Amendment.

I'm not completely sure of this, though.
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by John Q. Public »

Correct that the 25th wouldn't bar him from holding office again.

The problem with the 25th is that it was designed for a medical emergency and not to deal with a madman. I'm not sure if we have a law like that. The law lets the VP take over but after 4 days Trump could declare himself "recovered." They can invoke it again and (as I understand it) the decision would go to Congress to debate. They'd have 21 days to take it up and then I think 28 days to reach a decision, so it would buy enough time but it would allow Trump to leave office with the status of "incapacitated" so there wouldn't be any punitive effect. As I understand it. It's more immediate but only impeachment would be lasting.
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by ShiftyMutt »

I wondered about post-presidential perks. If he were impeached and removed he would lose those perks.
So perhaps a savings in the long run.

The 1958 Former Presidents Act assures that no president leaves office without being set for life—it guarantees a pension, access to health insurance, office space and staff, and Secret Service protection for as long as he or she wants it. There is, however, one exception: These perks are only aren’t granted to any presidents who are removed from office in an impeachment trial.

He’d have to pay for security and taxpayers wouldn’t be charged for security staying at his compounds.
I think I vote for impeachment.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... nQufxQev9k
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

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So this is my tin foil hat mindset. Iraq just issued an arrest warrant and Iran has made it clear they have no love lost for Trump after the drone strike that killed their favorite general. I believe Trump is smart enough to know that once he leaves office he will not have a mini-army protecting him like he does now.

Retired presidents only have about four or five USSS agents on their details. That would be pretty easy to overwhelm for a group bent on exacting justice they believe they are owed.

He has to know there are cross hairs on him and the shield will be significantly smaller.
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by BostonDave »

Yeah the 25th was always problematic on multiple levels. Now the math just doesn't add up. Plus Pence is shying away. I was in favor of both to be honest. But it's on to Impeachment. Full speed ahead. Of course there will be a backlash from cons in the future but (term I like to refer to myself as) it. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I fully expect cons to sink lower and play dirtier every time all the time. But still, Impeachment HO!
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by Foggy »

Impeachment.

But in reality, I think he cares WAY more about being kicked off Twitter than about impeachment.
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by ShiftyMutt »

He’ll start his own platform. But I wonder how it would function under his “230”.
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Re: Impeachment or Invoke the 25th?

Post by John Q. Public »

Daniel Dale clarified: Restricting him from holding office again would require a second vote after the one on impeachment.
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