Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

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Vilepagan
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Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

Post by Vilepagan »

Politico is reporting that the SCOTUS will strike down Roe v. Wade, and they released a leaked draft opinion to support their claims. While I think this is a very bad decision I think it will help the Democrats in the midterms.
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Re: Your Daily WTF

Post by Wabash »

No one should be surprised. The GOP has been making this an issue since Roe v Wade opinion was handed down 50 years ago.

More of the usual interference in the personal lives of others from the party that demands the government stay out of the lives of citizens.
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Re: Your Daily WTF

Post by ShiftyMutt »

And if Kavenaugh, Gorsuch, and Barrett have joined this vote then they lied to congress and should be removed.
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Re: Your Daily WTF

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Vilepagan wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 2:35 am While I think this is a very bad decision I think it will help the Democrats in the midterms.
I'll go with could help Democrats. Republican politicians have been using it to rile up the base for 50 years, even though the majority of Republican women don't want it overturned. What happens now that the dog has finally caught the car is anybody's guess. I don't know that it will be enough to get those women to vote for people they're convinced are godless communists.

Notice that the Pubs have been completely silent other than saying the leaker should be put to death.
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Re: Your Daily WTF

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ShiftyMutt wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 7:01 am And if Kavenaugh, Gorsuch, and Barrett have joined this vote then they lied to congress and should be removed.
I bet it's causing Susan Collins to be greatly concerned.
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Re: Your Daily WTF

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Alito's decision also said that decisions legalizing gay marriage and sodomy aren't steeped in American history, so that could put any laws in, I guess his lifetime or whatever he considers "history," in precarious positions. Pretty crazy to consider "heritage" on corrections to laws that restricted fundamental human rights.
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Re: Your Daily WTF

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something tells me you should start a new topic thread for this one, John Q
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

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Point taken.
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

Post by John Q. Public »

Excuse my ignorance, but does anyone know when and how abortion was made illegal? It wasn't originally and it wasn't even uncommon in some states and/or classes.
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

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John Q. Public wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 7:15 am I'll go with could help Democrats.
Ok, that's better, but I think at least the Republicans wish this came just after the midterms.
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

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AHA! Just like at the grocery store when you ask where something is and it appears right in front of your face, a Twitter thread:



Before states began introducing abortion legislation in the U.S. ca. 1820s-1840s, the willful termination of a pregnancy prior to "quickening" (when fetal movement could be felt) was not considered criminal, & common law did not formally recognize the existence of the fetus.

In the 18th and early 19th centuries, pregnancy could not be confirmed at an early stage, and there was not yet a widespread belief that an early fetus was imbued with life. Even post-quickening abortions were rarely prosecuted.

NY introduced the most stringent abortion laws in the 1820s, and was the first state to criminalize post-quickening abortion punishable by imprisonment, fine, or both. The method for inducing abortion did not matter, nor did the duration of the pregnancy.

On a practical level, it remained difficult to determine pregnancy in the early months, so pre-quickening abortions were rarely prosecuted, and historians believe that no woman was actually indicted for seeking an abortion in the nineteenth century.

Nevertheless, these laws represented significant shifts in legal, medical, and popular thinking, and reflected new ideas about fetal rights and maternal responsibilities.

The SCOTUS revision of this history is wrong and dangerous. There is no "unbroken tradition" regarding abortion in the United States, nor has there always been a widespread belief in "fetal life" since the nation's founding.

What we DO have an unbroken tradition of is this: women seeking greater control over their bodies, and women facing the most dangerous of circumstances to control reproduction.
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

Post by ShiftyMutt »

Ask the people basing their opinion of abortion on religion, where in the Bible is it stated?
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

Post by ventura »

shifty - it's all over the the bible, but why would you care?

you've got to be a separation of church and state guy, so I'm not sure what religion has to do with this debate - it should be about science and interpretation of the Constituion and founding documents (for Americans)

my atheist son is as staunchly opposed to abortion as any religious person I've ever known
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

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Because most of the people so fiercely against abortion cite their “religious beliefs”.

And… I’m not a guy.
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

Post by Wabash »

ventura wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 9:37 am my atheist son is as staunchly opposed to abortion as any religious person I've ever known
Let me know what he thinks when he gets pregnant.

Where is the conservative belief of keeping the government out of one's personal life?

That is the point anti-abortion zealots ignore.

Roberts seems to be more concerned about the source of the leak than the impending opinion. I am guessing they wanted to publish their opinion right as they ran out the door for term's recess.

Ooops.
Last edited by Wabash on Tue May 03, 2022 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

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ventura wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 9:37 am ...it should be about science and interpretation of the Constituion and founding documents...
Like it says up above it, it wasn't mentioned in any founding documents. And it wasn't uncommon at the time. It was made illegal much later, if you consider more than a lifetime to be a long time.
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

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These are the same people that fought mask mandates because they want the govt out of their business*. The “pro-life” folks that refuse to do the simple single jester to wear a mask that contributes to *saving lives*.
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

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ventura wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 9:37 am shifty - it's all over the the bible,
Ok, enlighten me, Swami Nanda.
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

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It does make me wonder because medical science and knowledge of the body's inner workings was kinda non-existent at the time it was originally written.
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Re: Leaked document says Roe will be overturned

Post by ventura »

shifty - no need to get snippy (the subject is emotionally charged all on its own) - just google it yourself, it'll take a few seconds and then you don't have to take my word for it - did it not occur to you that Jesus was in Mary's womb, according to the bible?

John Q - medical science advancements in the last 100 years make it clear that we should follow the science and not allow the shedding of innocent human blood - human life begins at conception, according to the science

but the topic is Roe and the faulty reasoning behind the '73 decision written by Blackmun and there is much support on both sides of the aisle about just how faulty it was - abortion rights advocates like John Hart Ely and Edward Lazarus (who clerked for Justice Blackmun) write about this in the strongest of terms

also, you guys on the left ok that this was leaked? is there precedent for that?
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